How to Teach a Child to Argue

mrk

mrk

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Has anyone read this little piece by Jay Heinrichs?

I fell asleep before I could read it last night, but this morning --and what a beautifully sunny morning it is-- it certainly entertained me over an early breakfast.

I think it's high time some people in my family did with a little ethos, pathos and logos here :D :cool:
 
Thanks for the link - a really good article.
How long before this thread turns into a version of the Python argument sketch?
 
3. Call “fouls.” Anything that impedes debate counts as a foul: Shouting, storming out of the room, or recalling past family atrocities should instantly make you choose the opposite side.

Proof that some women are in fact manipulative children. :p
 
Proof that some women are in fact manipulative children. :p

And chances are that when the shouting, storming out of the room, or recalling past family atrocities happens, we're already on the "opposite side"...:D
 
I tried to use all three forms of argument on George when, at the age of 7, he insisted on wearing shorts to school in the middle of winter. First I laid some ethos on him with my stern fatherly character: “You have to wear pants because I am your father and I told you to.” But he just looked at me with tears in his eyes.

Next I tried logos: “Pants will keep your legs from chapping,” I said reasonably. “You’ll feel a lot better.”

“But I want to wear shorts.”

So I resorted to pathos. I pulled up my pant legs and pranced around. “Doh-de-doh, look at me, here I go off to work wearing shorts.

Don’t I look stupid?”

“Yes,” he said, continuing to pull his shorts on.

“So why do you insist on wearing shorts yourself?”

“Because I don’t look stupid. And they’re my legs. I don’t mind if they get chapped.”

Oh, my. He had done me one better with ethos (I don’t look stupid), logos (They’re my legs — you don’t have standing in this case), and pathos (Stop worrying — I’ll deal with the pain issue). He was also making his first genuine attempt to argue instead of cry. I couldn’t possibly let him lose this one.

“All right,” I said. “You can wear shorts in school if your mother and I can clear it with your teacher and the principal. But you have to wear snow pants outside. Deal?”

“Deal.” He happily fetched his snow pants, and I called the school. A few weeks later the principal declared George’s birthday Shorts Day, and she even showed up in culottes. It was mid-February. We all had reached a comfortable — rhetorically comfortable, at least — kind of consensus, a belief in our decision by the group or community.

I'm not convinced by this. It sounds to me like the kid got his way. Nothing clever or unusual in the way he got it. In fact the whole article comes across as though the father is reading too much into things. His kids don't sound at all clever, or any different. He's a typically deluded parent.
 
I'm not convinced by this. It sounds to me like the kid got his way. Nothing clever or unusual in the way he got it. In fact the whole article comes across as though the father is reading too much into things. His kids don't sound at all clever, or any different. He's a typically deluded parent.

agreed
 
What do you have against Americans? surely you're not full of your own importance to think you're better in any way.
 
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I'm not convinced by this. It sounds to me like the kid got his way. Nothing clever or unusual in the way he got it. In fact the whole article comes across as though the father is reading too much into things. His kids don't sound at all clever, or any different. He's a typically deluded parent.

He might well be reading too much into it but as a basic premise it's a good idea to teach your child how to argue logically and pursuasively because the alternative is much less pleasant to deal with. If you don't have a concept of what it means to be logical (and plenty of people don't seem to) then you cannot employ reason against it which means that it comes down to having enough power to stop them from whatever transgression they are about to embark on - you might have more power than a child but remember that there is always someone bigger and stronger than you.
 
I've got a three year old neice that's already perfected the art of argument, including today's masterclass on why she should watch Playhouse Disney on my telly when I want to watch the Lions rugby match later.
 
I'm not convinced by this. It sounds to me like the kid got his way. Nothing clever or unusual in the way he got it. In fact the whole article comes across as though the father is reading too much into things. His kids don't sound at all clever, or any different. He's a typically deluded parent.

Agreed.

"You'll wear trousers rather than shorts because I say so" with iron in your voice. If they don't punish them.

Parents today seem either to want to be "friends" with their children or are too limp to actually make decisions and stick to them.
 
Not all Parents...many, but not all.

How many children do you know of that respond as quickly as author's and the little one mentioned in this thread?

One of my nieces is very similar too, her mum home schools them all and they're all very bright and quick on the mark with witty responses that don't offend but intrigue.
 
Agreed.

"You'll wear trousers rather than shorts because I say so" with iron in your voice. If they don't punish them.

Parents today seem either to want to be "friends" with their children or are too limp to actually make decisions and stick to them.

As much as there is a very valid point in there somewhere, it's become all too easy for some parents to fall back on smacking or the use of fear as the easy answer to get their way. Fear/force are good tools if used appropriately, but on the whole it is (in my opinion) better to teach the child to think and explain where possible. Sure, if you're in a supermarket and the kid starts crying (hell, I used to do it) smacking is the quick answer, but likewise, such problems are less likely to occur if the child has been taught mindfulness.

If a child ever tries to tell you something, listen and work out where they're coming from - don't just dismiss it as childish stupidity. Kids are blank canvasses, but mix the paint wrong and it wont be as good a painting; handle with care.

I'd much rather be friends with my children [if and when] then have them utterly fear me to the point I'm unapproachable when they really do need some help. Boundaries are all well and good, but once they're old enough that boundary needs to come down like the Berlin Wall.
 
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