How to weigh up commute vs pay / experience

[HangTime]

Hypothetical question.

If you were in a job that was:
+Decent money
+Prestigious employer
+Good experience / exposure
+Good people / supportive boss
-Very busy
-Long commute

How do you go about weighing up the options of ditching that job and getting something closer to home, giving less money, probably a lesser employer, less valuable experience?
It's something I struggle to reach a conclusion on; a few years ago I made the move in the opposite direction, which has worked out well in basically every regard except for the commute and amount of work. But it's like, if I were to shave say 10-12 hours a week off the commute, how do I really know what level of sacrifice is worth it? How much money should I throw away? Might I be jeopardising my future prospects too much by leaving the rat race?

 

[TNGL]

At a very basic level, I would ask myself if an hour of my time is worth more than [Difference in salary] / [Difference in hours]. How I value an hour of my time would depend on what else I could spend my time on and how much I value these alternative uses of my time.

I would also try to account for how much I value my time today vs how much I value my time when I retire. After all, the better money with longer hours now may result in an earlier retirement. That could mean that over your lifetime, you actually spend less time working by giving up more time today (but if you value your time today more than you value your time in say 20 years, this may not be an optimal outcome).

 

[dowie]

But it's like, if I were to shave say 10-12 hours a week off the commute, how do I really know what level of sacrifice is worth it? How much money should I throw away? Might I be jeopardising my future prospects too much by leaving the rat race?

Well re: jeopardising future prospects - surely that depends on what you are actually thinking of doing and what your future goals are? I mean are you talking about completely changing careers here?

How to weigh it up is, in the end, subjective and depends on your personal situation, goals, what you value etc...

There are objective elements of course... like you can compare your total hours spent at work AND commuting when looking at two different jobs - perhaps the lower paid but closer one becomes quite similarly paid on a pro rata basis from that perspective. Though of course the additional money earned might vary in terms of the utility to you.

Here is how I'd look at it in a very general sense:

There is the utility that extra money brings to you - that again is personal and dependent on what stage your life is at.... I mean everyone has their basic living expenses etc.. but the worth of the additional money beyond living expenses, hobbies, holidays and some set aside for savings/investments can vary.

Suppose you have enough to cover those things mentioned but you're planning to get married or you've not yet bought a house and need a deposit... well the additional hours perhaps have some greater utility for you. Likewise in general, when you're younger and have fewer expenses, an additional hours during the week can be useful as you can save more and that money works for itself over the years... on the other hand you don't want to squander your 20s/30s and probably want to make the most of weekends/holidays etc..

When you're older and have kids, have a house etc.. the utility of spending extra hours to earn money you don't really need is significantly lowered, you'd probably value spending time with your kids more. That still varies between people, I guess some people are in the situation where if they want to achieve certain things for their kids like taking them skiing each year, sending them to private school and that might mean stressful work for some in order to provide that for their family. For others perhaps they're already doing rather well that they can take a step back a bit and still have that stuff covered, they're just sacrificing additional play money that might be nice to have but time with kids better.

Likewise if you end up old and childless then you can very likely afford to enjoy life, kids in general will cost a six figure sum each, for a professional wanting to send two kids to private schools, take a decent winter and summer holiday etc.. the costs could well add up to more like a million or so by the time they reach retirement. If someone in the same position didn't have kids then they'd have a lot of surplus cash to spend on a nicer house, some flash cars etc.. and perhaps even nicer holidays. Or alternatively, they'd have greater scope to relax a lot sooner in their career or even take early retirement if they wanted.

 

[Kaka]

What would the additional hours saved from the commute go towards? Do you have a partner or have any kids?

 

[the_r_sole]

having gone from a job with an hour + commute each way to a job where I can walk for 10mins, I can say that not having a commute is massive!
on a working week you are travelling for the equivalent of a full working day, the one thing you don't have any more of is time, you can always make more money but you can't make more time

 

[Terminal_Boy]

If a “lesser” job with a considerably shorter commute will pay the bills, take it.

The combination of busy/long hours and a long commute means that you only see your kids at the weekend until they’re teenagers as you’re out the door by 07:00 and not home again before 21:00.

Just being home in time to read them a bedtime story regularly is priceless.

 

[Randomface74]

Hypothetical question.

If you were in a job that was:
+Decent money
+Prestigious employer
+Good experience / exposure
+Good people / supportive boss
-Very busy
-Long commute

How do you go about weighing up the options of ditching that job and getting something closer to home, giving less money, probably a lesser employer, less valuable experience?
It's something I struggle to reach a conclusion on; a few years ago I made the move in the opposite direction, which has worked out well in basically every regard except for the commute and amount of work. But it's like, if I were to shave say 10-12 hours a week off the commute, how do I really know what level of sacrifice is worth it? How much money should I throw away? Might I be jeopardising my future prospects too much by leaving the rat race?

I think this is too personal a decision for us to say. Do you want an easier life? Do you need the extra money? You'll just have to weigh it up and on balance choose what makes you happier.

 

[jpaul]

Presumably, you cannot negotiate working from home a few days a week ? to see how it changes your life.
A previous employer offered that, but, having previously worked a few minutes walk from home,
that changes your life, no stress from travel, or missing the minimal traffic slot, easy to pop back to work, or continue a conference call from home, lots more versatility.

 

[Semple]

Presumably, you cannot negotiate working from home a few days a week ? to see how it changes your life.
A previous employer offered that, but, having previously worked a few minutes walk from home,
that changes your life, no stress from travel, or missing the minimal traffic slot, easy to pop back to work, or continue a conference call from home, lots more versatility.

This is pretty much my take on it, and I think more companies should push for WFH. In my professional career I've never experienced a short commute. When I first started it would take me door-to-door about 90 mins each way on the train, and I eventually cut that down to an hour with driving - although timings became much varied.

I can honestly say I absolutely hated the commute home. Thankfully work had pretty flexible working hours so on days I didn't have late meetings, I used to start early and try and get out of the office just before 4pm. If I wasn't driving out by quarter past then I may as well have waited until 6pm for rush hour to finish.

I can cope with slow moving traffic, but what I can't cope with is standstill traffic all because other drivers are pushing into a queue. I wfh 99% of the time now, and not having to faff with commuting is an absolute delight - to the point I would gladly sacrifice some of my salary if it ever came to a point of no longer being possible.

 

[HangTime]

Thanks for the responses, a few answers to questions:

-I'm married with a child and another on the way (which is partly what is making me consider things, as I can see things being quite tough with a newborn baby and mammoth commute)
-I don't 'need' the money, as my house is all paid for and I have considerable savings by most people's standards, although kids are expensive
-The 'utility' of the money isn't massive right now, we haven't taken an overseas holiday in 7 years, I don't have particularly expensive tastes etc although I do value being able to pay for important things for the family without thinking about it (e.g. private health screening), and ultimately building up some cash opens up the potential for moving to a better house if we want to go down that route. And just generally having the cash available to get things we want, get a new car or whatever.
-I typically work from home one day a week, but I don't think I could increase this due to various factors (meetings where being present increases influence / makes it easier, need for facetime with my team, general desire to be around and see what is happening)
-I don't really know what I would do with the time saved beyond spending more time with the family and it making it generally easier for things like meal times, if people are taken ill etc
-Not really talking about a career change, the prospects thing is more about how it might be perceived to leave a widely respected company in the city and go and work for some mickey mouse joint out in the sticks, i.e. in the future would I be able to get my foot back in the door if I wanted to. Or indeed if I stuck it out where I am then potentially good opportunities could just naturally open up as my experience and network of contacts expands.

One other factor that has come to mind is I think my social life might suffer a bit if I changed work location, currently because of where I work it is very easy to do stuff in the evenings like go for drinks, attend football matches etc. Aside from other parents that I have been introduced to by my wife, I don't really have any friends or family where I live, everyone lives miles away.

Finally another option I had originally expected to pursue was to move closer to my work but I found that we really struggled to make progress on getting the house ready to sell (in part because I don't really have much free time on weekdays and thus wanted to enjoy our weekends as a family), and then my son was approaching school age so we didn't want to disrupt that. Essentially I can't see us moving for perhaps another 5 years.

 

[Deleted member 651465]

It sounds to me that you want to stay where you are so perhaps a move closer to the workplace is the right action.

I realise you've stated that it didn't work ^ but it really does tick the boxes. Personally speaking, I'd make that my goal and sacrifice some time on the weekends to get the house ready to sell now before the baby comes along. Would you be able to pay someone to do the jobs you'd normally do and get the house ready quicker? It could mean you retain some semblance of normality and could do things on the weekends.

There's no way I'd leave a top employer just to reduce a commute as you'll end up with less money, less opportunities and it'll be harder to get back to where you are now without the questions from potential employers.

 

[jpaul]

There's no way I'd leave a top employer just to reduce a commute as you'll end up with less money, less opportunities and it'll be harder to get back to where you are now without the questions from potential employers.

Employees want people who can show they are in control of their lives, you can legitimately explain your approach in an interview and it can be win win, they are getting a more committed employee, because he is also able to satisfy out of work needs too.
(... there are some parallels with your Amsterdam challenge ... but I suppose it is all under the work-life balance umberella )

 

[4K8KW10]

Hypothetical question.

If you were in a job that was:
+Decent money
+Prestigious employer
+Good experience / exposure
+Good people / supportive boss
-Very busy
-Long commute

How do you go about weighing up the options of ditching that job and getting something closer to home, giving less money, probably a lesser employer, less valuable experience?
It's something I struggle to reach a conclusion on; a few years ago I made the move in the opposite direction, which has worked out well in basically every regard except for the commute and amount of work. But it's like, if I were to shave say 10-12 hours a week off the commute, how do I really know what level of sacrifice is worth it? How much money should I throw away? Might I be jeopardising my future prospects too much by leaving the rat race?

What does valuable experience mean - that you get knowledge which others will pay you more for in the future or that you are doing something that you love?
It really depends if you work only for the money or you work because of your own vision and goals how to help this society.

Also, details at least what this employer does would be good to evaluate the options better.

 

[Quartz]

I'm married with a child and another on the way

Then you really ought to look at minimising your commute. Time not spent with your family can never be recovered. If the job is all you say it is, can you move to nearer the job?

 

[4K8KW10]

Then you really ought to look at minimising your commute. Time not spent with your family can never be recovered. If the job is all you say it is, can you move to nearer the job?

Well, it is not exactly like that. Couples need time to rest from each other and from babies...

 

[Deleted member 66701]

For me, for every hour spent commuting over my existing commute I'd want to get at least another 5 hours worth of pay.

 

[Buffman]

For me, for every hour spent commuting over my existing commute I'd want to get at least another 5 hours worth of pay.

Not just an extra hours pay?

Id rather commute an extra hour than work it!

To be fair I don't think commutes way over 1 each way hour driving are particularly sustainable. Up to around 1 hour ok but High. Train is better for longer commutes.

 

[Deleted member 66701]

Not just an extra hours pay?

No, not a chance.

That hour leisure time lost to spend with friends, family and hobbies is worth way more than an hours pay.

 

[HangTime]

What does valuable experience mean - that you get knowledge which others will pay you more for in the future or that you are doing something that you love?
It really depends if you work only for the money or you work because of your own vision and goals how to help this society.

Knowledge, contacts / working with very good people, opportunities for advancement, better looking CV etc - so basically the former rather than the latter. I could get similar levels of overall job satisfaction from something more local, for sure, but with significantly reduced current earnings and probably future earnings potential. The [segment of] industry I work in is heavily centred around London so dropping out of that market for too long might restrict my options with competitors if I found myself wanting to delve back there in future.

 

[4K8KW10]

Knowledge, contacts / working with very good people, opportunities for advancement, better looking CV etc - so basically the former rather than the latter. I could get similar levels of overall job satisfaction from something more local, for sure, but with significantly reduced current earnings and probably future earnings potential. The [segment of] industry I work in is heavily centred around London so dropping out of that market for too long might restrict my options with competitors if I found myself wanting to delve back there in future.

Well, I'd join @EVH comment. I see that the problem is the distance between your family and the office. If there isn't another important reason why you would like to stay exactly where you live, then the best would be to change the location. If possible closer to friends and relatives, and to the office.