how useful is a computing degree, honestly

[TW]Fox;10152211 said:
Surely experience in plugging in printers and configuring network accounts or whatever else you do aged 18 in an IT job is only worth so much?
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Very good point there.

To get into Software Development (which I'm aiming to) I'm pretty sure it's rare to get a job without a degree. You could maybe be a tester for a few years first, or actually learn programming, design etc and then get straight into the industry.

They usually ask for both a degree and experience, which is often the catch 22.
 
Rotty said:
When I have doing interviews I would much rather have someone with 3 years experience than a degree
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Couldn't talk to my boss could ya? :o

Trying to move teams within the IT department I work in, and even though I've done the job in the past, I've been turned down once already for someone who had the paperwork.
 
I think it's obvious that someone with relevant experience is going to have a better chance of getting a job than someone with no experience and a degree. But you have to get that experience in the first place, and a degree helps in that respect.

Gilly said:
Thats the starting point, and its a fair point, but do you learn more doing that or going out getting smashed every night aged 18 as a Uni student?
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What you learn on the job and what you learn at university are very different things. At university you don't really learn how to do a job. You learn in depth knowledge and skills that will help you learn how to do a more advanced job later down the line. Not that it's the only way to do that of course, but it is one way.
 
I work for an investment bank. Im currently doing a sandwich year there, they have a strict policy of not employing anybody without a degree......

depends on what you wanna go into, impo a degree always is better than none
 
Welshy said:
Very good point there.

To get into Software Development (which I'm aiming to) I'm pretty sure it's rare to get a job without a degree. You could maybe be a tester for a few years first, or actually learn programming, design etc and then get straight into the industry.

They usually ask for both a degree and experience, which is often the catch 22.
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Thats why you go for a graduate job at the big places. It gets you onto the ladder and its up from there.

Or you just do what i did... take a year out before going to uni doing a goverment scheme (YII Scheme) where you get experience in the field you want and the company gets very cheap labour (or do a uni placement scheme 4 year course) then you stand out more against the 12 million other graduate programmers.
 
university is so much more than about getting a degree though. its all about the social aspect for me. degree when you come out is nice to have, but as has been said, experience is what talks in most real world situations.

do a sandwich year and then you'll have a degree, a bit of money and some experience.
 
Rotty said:
When I have doing interviews I would much rather have someone with 3 years experience than a degree
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The problem I found with that when trying to get a job before I came to uni, was simply, I knew/know a fair amount about PCs having worked on and with them for many years, but not having it down on paper as a previous job etc. gets you nowhere.
I'm doing my degree in computing as I enjoy it, but also to get me that first job that allows me to build up my years of experience on paper.

Nowadays trying to get a job in IT without a degree or 'experience' is very hard as your CV just gets passed over.

InvG
 
Gilly said:
Thats the starting point, and its a fair point, but do you learn more doing that or going out getting smashed every night aged 18 as a Uni student?
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I've been way past that 'starting point' and every IT job I applied to, no matter how simple or complex, within a 50mile radius of my home (catches a few cities/large towns), and I applied to a huge amount, got absolutely no response back.

I get what you are saying, that experience is important, but if you can't get that experience you need something like a degree to count as that to get you started on the experience ladder.

Oh, and I' doing a sandwich degree, which gives me both, experience and a degree, which in my view should be done, you should not do a computing degree without a sandwich year.

InvG
 
Theres a huge difference between what makes you better at a job and what GETS you a job.

I didnt do a degree, I wanted to do networking so I of course did a CCNA, got interested in security and did a CCSP and a lot of personal research around pen testing etc. All of this in my own time while working. Im 22 now and far better at my job than anyone with an IT degree and 1 years experience but if I apply for a job I will get FAR fewer responses than someone with a degree. Thats because your CV is either read by some pen pusher who did a business and IT degree at Durham but tells everyone it was Oxford or by someone in a agency call centre who doesnt know what CCNA means.

The end line:
Degree = jobs
specific industry cert = skills
 
On interviewing candidates for IT, I wouldn't choose someone purely over their academic merits. My main objectives would be to see if they are keen, work well and can fit into a team. Technically, I’d go for someone with commercial experience over just a qualification.
 
scorza said:
And that you're self-motivated enough to get through a dissertation, and that you're capable of learning stuff beyond whats force fed to you by the lecturers. I'd say a degree was used more as an indication of potential rather than intelligence.

A degree will open a whole host of opportunities for you - there's a huge graduate job marketplace out there. I'm not saying a degree is for everyone, it sounds like you aren't enjoying yours, but if you were enjoying it I'd advise you to stay put.
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Do you work for a/as a university advisor?;)

The problem with a lot of IT jobs, is that a lot of the time, the people who make the decisions on who to interview/gets the job, have no idea whats needed for an IT job.
They see a degree on a CV and think thats a sign that the person is a good choice, because they got that idea from when they were at Uni, that a degree is good for everything. When its not.
 
personally i think 3+ years experience is far better than a degree as lets face it, everyone has a degree in one thing or another these days.

Im a contractor with no degree but over 4yrs experience and my hourly rate is a lot higher than my counter parts who all have degrees.

Sometimes practical experience is far better than text book
 
having seen what my friends have come out of uni knowing after a 3 year web development course, my 2 years experience vs their 3 year degree beats them hands down.
 
photoshop said:
personally i think 3+ years experience is far better than a degree as lets face it, everyone has a degree in one thing or another these days.

Im a contractor with no degree but over 4yrs experience and my hourly rate is a lot higher than my counter parts who all have degrees.

Sometimes practical experience is far better than text book
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Yeah, it's all well and good, but as I've pointed out earlier, if you can't get your foot in the door at the jobs to get the experience, then you need something like a degree to do that.

I wouldn't be sat here waiting for uni to start this year if I could have got myself a job in the IT industry back home before I started uni last year (and I tried constantly).

If I could have not gone to uni due to a job I'd have taken the job over uni. I was offered a job, and took it, then just before I was to start/sign contracts etc. the job fell through, that was the one and only chance I had...shame too as it was a techniciany job, which is what I'll probably be after once I finish here in three years time. :(

InvG
 
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BoomAM said:
Do you work for a/as a university advisor?;)

The problem with a lot of IT jobs, is that a lot of the time, the people who make the decisions on who to interview/gets the job, have no idea whats needed for an IT job.
They see a degree on a CV and think thats a sign that the person is a good choice, because they got that idea from when they were at Uni, that a degree is good for everything. When its not.
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No I work in IT as a software developer. No-one I've ever worked with has not had a degree. Until recently we had a strict degree-only policy for recruitment, hell back in the good old days we'd even take people with non-IT/science degrees and train them up. Now we do recruit people without degrees, but only for roles such as first line support or going round to customer sites to plug in mice/printers etc.

There's also very much a glass-ceiling as well if you don't have a degree. It will be very hard to get a senior management position without a MBA, and you can't get a MBA without a degree.
 
Rotty said:
When I have doing interviews I would much rather have someone with 3 years experience than a degree
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The thing is, to get that 3 years worth of experience you may need a degree. Also the quality of experience may be greater if you have a degree because you could start in a better job.

Also would I be wrong in saying that each employer is different and a lot of the time would favour someone with the same background? i.e. an employer with a degree may favour an employee with a degree and vice versa.
 
Admiral Huddy said:
Is that so? :D

Interesting.
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I didnt say all of them. I said most. ;) :p

scorza said:
No I work in IT as a software developer. No-one I've ever worked with has not had a degree. Until recently we had a strict degree-only policy for recruitment, hell back in the good old days we'd even take people with non-IT/science degrees and train them up. Now we do recruit people without degrees, but only for roles such as first line support or going round to customer sites to plug in mice/printers etc.

There's also very much a glass-ceiling as well if you don't have a degree. It will be very hard to get a senior management position without a MBA, and you can't get a MBA without a degree.
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Well im afriad your company is a perfect example of what i touched on previously.
A degree is not a sign of skill or intelligence in computing.
Not saying its a bad thing, but your company is potentially limiting itself.
 
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