how useful is a computing degree, honestly

Malc said:
The thing is, to get that 3 years worth of experience you may need a degree. Also the quality of experience may be greater if you have a degree because you could start in a better job.

Also would I be wrong in saying that each employer is different and a lot of the time would favour someone with the same background? i.e. an employer with a degree may favour an employee with a degree and vice versa.
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First part I totally agree with.

Second part, it depends on the size of the company and how they work to be honest.
If the company is a big one, then they'll have their general HR people recruiting, which will, as has been stated, mean that people with experience can be looked over due to not having a degree. Smaller companies that do the HR from the IT side (I'm sure some larger ones do as well mind), so they are more likely to look at experience as well as degrees.

InvG
 
scorza said:
No I work in IT as a software developer. No-one I've ever worked with has not had a degree. Until recently we had a strict degree-only policy for recruitment, hell back in the good old days we'd even take people with non-IT/science degrees and train them up. Now we do recruit people without degrees, but only for roles such as first line support or going round to customer sites to plug in mice/printers etc.

There's also very much a glass-ceiling as well if you don't have a degree. It will be very hard to get a senior management position without a MBA, and you can't get a MBA without a degree.
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Glad I dont work in software dev lol. Especially if the general consensus is that the ultimate goal/path to higher earnings is to do management. I cant even take someone with an ITIL seriously :p
 
What's with all the blanket statement? It depends on the kind of job, the kind of degree, and the kind of qualification.

What good is IT Support experience for an Analyst Programmer position? What good is a Web Development degree for a Business Analyst? What good is a degree in Computing and experience in software testing for a Project Management position?

There has to be a good match of all these factors. Moreover, you have to be able to show, how and why your experience AND your degree will allow you to succeed in your job.

As a rough rule, for senior positions you have to be good at designing and analysing technical issues, and directing/advising technical people on what needs to get done. For technical positions, you have to have a strong technical base with a proven track record (IT support doesn't count), backed up by the right degree.
 
BoomAM said:
Well im afriad your company is a perfect example of what i touched on previously.
A degree is not a sign of skill or intelligence in computing.
Not saying its a bad thing, but your company is potentially limiting itself.
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/shrug its the same at all of our competitors, and the reason for that is because thats what our customers want. Not saying that those without degrees aren't intelligent, or that they don't make good software developers, but I do think that those with degrees will have an advantage in the job market, and rightly so.

In India they would probably laugh at us for having this debate here. The value of a good degree over there is unquestioned and is, imo, one of the reasons why they are taking over the IT world.
 
You can take any Fred, Dick or Harry and teach them:
1) Web design
2) Basic programming (E.g. database app development)
3) Tech Support

These quite simply DO NOT require a degree, they are monkey jobs, anyone can do them! People doing these jobs can't comment on computer science, because quite simiply they dont do computer science. It's that simple

I bet the majority of people posting "you don't need a degree" work in these monkey roles.

HOWEVER if actually want to do computer science and not a monkey job when you finish then you DO need a degree.

REAL computer science jobs (E.g. software design for aircraft / defense systems) then the mathematical skill and lateral thinking from your degree will be invaluable.

I'd bet good money if I walked into one these peoples work place, found someone with no academic training and said "OK explain to me what a neural networks is and design one for me to read postcodes" they'd look at me like I'm from mars.

CS != programming, it's a whole lot more.

Davem
 
DAVEM said:
You can take any Fred, Dick or Harry and teach them:
1) Web design
2) Basic programming (E.g. database app development)
3) Tech Support

These quite simply DO NOT require a degree, they are monkey jobs, anyone can do them! People doing these jobs can't comment on computer science, because quite simiply they dont do computer science. It's that simple

I bet the majority of people posting "you don't need a degree" work in these monkey roles.

HOWEVER if actually want to do computer science and not a monkey job when you finish then you DO need a degree.

REAL computer science jobs (E.g. software design for aircraft / defense systems) then the mathematical skill and lateral thinking from your degree will be invaluable.

I'd bet good money if I walked into one these peoples work place, found someone with no academic training and said "OK explain to me what a neural networks is and design one for me to read postcodes" they'd look at me like I'm from mars.

CS != programming, it's a whole lot more.

Davem
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Very good post :)

KaHn
 
DAVEM said:
SOME computer science jobs (E.g. theoretical / research / academic roles) then the mathematical skill and lateral thinking from your degree will be invaluable.
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Sorry I had to correct that sentance.

Im sure the man above you who creates the kernals / hardware you use thinks you do a monkey job too
 
Surely the level of degree counts for something tho?

I got a 2:2, so surely someone with a 2:1 will get preference over me (if we had similar experience) wouldn't they?
 
scorza said:
In India they would probably laugh at us for having this debate here. The value of a good degree over there is unquestioned and is, imo, one of the reasons why they are taking over the IT world.
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lol, ive seen plenty of examples where indian programmers = fail. A lot of time, you just gets code monkeys. (Logica CMG :cough:)
 
[TW]Fox;10152173 said:
What about someone with 9 years experience and a degree versus someone with 12 years experience?
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then the quality of experience would be everything, 9 years on a degree counts for nothing
 
leaskovski said:
lol, ive seen plenty of examples where indian programmers = fail. A lot of time, you just gets code monkeys. (Logica CMG :cough:)
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I've seen likewise for British programmers. Amazingly enough, there are good and bad Indian programmers just as there are good and bad British programmers. I'm not sure what your point was :confused:
 
[TW]Fox;10154377 said:
I meant a degree and THEN 9 years experience. ie, you are picking between two 32 year olds for example.
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Yes, that's how I read it, 9 years after completing a degree the degree would count for nothing, the 9 years experience would be what I looked at, now if the degree got them a better start towards that 9 years experience then maybe it was some use but the fact of having the degree would mean nothing at this point
 
MikeHunt79 said:
Surely the level of degree counts for something tho?

I got a 2:2, so surely someone with a 2:1 will get preference over me (if we had similar experience) wouldn't they?
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Probably yes, as they'd look at the two CVs, and compare them. But you may have written a better PS than the person with the 2:1 so you could end up with the job.

To be honest the way I see it is so long as I get a job in IT once I'm done here I'm happy. Be it due to my degree, or experience, or whatever.
I know I have a better chance than some of my course mates when it comes to getting placements/jobs as most of them have little to no experience in jobs. I've been working part time since I was 16, and then full time in my year before uni (did a gap year). Most of my mates are straight from college with no part time jobs.

InvG
 
Rotty said:
then the quality of experience would be everything, 9 years on a degree counts for nothing
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With all the respect in the world Rotty, I think you're talking out of your *** on this one. You clearly have no idea what someone with 9 years in academia actually knows, does in reality and can do with real world problems.

In your role you might not need people with a degree thats fair enough.

But 9 years of higher education does mean a LOT. For that many years you'd expect them to have perhaps:
MSci
PhD
2 years Post doc

People with that background are likely to be able to do things that you wouldn't be able to understand. I happen, as it happens, to have a copy of LNCS on me.... one typical paper:
"ICA and GA Feature extraction and selection for cloud classification"

Now I'm sure you can enlighten us on how you'd go about do this?

Davem
 
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One of my best friends from uni has just accepted a job at BP starting on £32k. He got a 2:1 in physics. :)

Computing degrees I think can be hit and miss because if you're going for computing jobs, there is so much competition these days. Unless you are the best of the best, it's hard to stand out. I had another friend finish at Cambridge with a 1st, then he did his PhD in 2 years, and then went to work for Intel doing some sort of high-end research.

I'd say get as much relevent work experience as possible in the form of summer internships etc. They are looked on very very favourably.
 
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