how useful is a computing degree, honestly

[Dj_Jestar]

I don't do "science" development but I certainly don't do monkey coding either IMO. I write multi-threaded code on a daily, even hourly basis. Pretty much all the projects I work on are multi-threaded in some way. The projects I work on require research, prototyping etc - so there is a clear development process and path. We tend to use the "extreme programming" model because it tends to fit best with a small business and has least overheads. The bads points are that it doesn't scale well (although we fully intend to be bought out before we have more than a handful of developers... so not our problem! ) and also the long working hours. I often work evenings and sometimes weekends just to make sure the team are reaching the goals and finishing projects.

Being a successful developer is a lot more than writing code and knowing complex algorithms OTOH. You need to be business-minded as well in order to satisfy the businessmen of the company. If you aren't churning out polished code or visible progress on a week by week basis and they are having to go back to the customers saying "it's not quite ready yet" then they are going to get annoyed very quickly. Luckily I have the best relationship with the company director one could ever ask for which makes things easier. Also "good" developers understand that sometimes the best solution is not always the most elegant one. There are time constrants so sometimes "hacks" may be in order to fulfil a sale. It's up to the developer to almost instinctively know when to take a shortcut or less than optimal design in order to keep the customers happy.

This is offtopic, so I won't go into massive detail; but have you undertaken Scrum development in your gaff? It's an amalgamation of Agile and XP, and it is very, very useful - especially when you need to deliver monthly/weekly.

 

[Sonea Fifer]

Agreed it's just silly. If people can't discuss the thread subject without throwing insults around at people and/or coming across as all high and mighty and arrogant then they aren't welcome. I'm still surprised how "venomous" people can be in these types of threads - it's like all their manners go out the window. For example w11tho seemingly entered the thread all guns blazing and managed to offend a number of people in a single post and then subjectively ignored any questioning pointed his way.

Couldn't agree more - as I've said before in my earlier post as far as am concerned there's no one degree thats better than any other - it's what you enjoy that counts and if your chosen subject leads to a job that pays well and you also enjoy then thats all for the better imo.

 

[Nitefly]

Did you go to Bristol by any chance?

How dare you! I only mentioned it because cambridge would have been too obvious and Bristol is the third best apparently.

To answer your question directly, 'no '.

 

[w11tho]

And you aren't showing a huge amount of arrogance?

Now come on. You've just got your knickers in a twist because I pointed out that you didn't seem to know what degree classification you had! The rest of my posts have simply been pointing out to someone that doing a few maths modules and using what you've learnt in your job, doesn't make you a mathematician. I'm in a fairly good position to judge, as I work in a mathematics dept (only as a lowly student, mind) and am surrounded by actual mathematicians! I don't think he's doing any harm calling himself a mathematician, but it's a pet hate of mine so I thought I'd clarify the situation.

My standpoint on the main points in this thread remain the same:

Threads like this always result in two clear viewpoints: those without degrees will try to convince you (and themselves) that they're not an important attribute, while those with them will have you know you can't mow the lawn without one. It's down to horses for courses! Intel aren't about to hire someone from Bangor with a 2:2 in business IT administration, and someone with a 1st from Oxford in Computer Science isn't likely to apply to for a tech-support position at the local Tesco.

If you've enough sense about you, you'll do a little research and find out the prerequisites for your chosen career. It's down to you to decide whether or not you're capable of obtaining those prerequisites.

 

[daz]

I don't think he's doing any harm calling himself a mathematician, but it's a pet hate of mine so I thought I'd clarify the situation.

You should let other people call themselves whatever they want. You even said it doesn't do any harm, so why worry about it?

If I want to call myself a physicist I can do... but whether other people would regard me as one is a totally different question.

 

[MikeHunt79]

I did love uni for what it was - which was a laugh and an experiance I'll never forget. The degree was a bonus!

No one here seems to feel that just the experiance of the times had at uni actually better than the benefit that their degree gave them?

Does that make sense?

Agreed. In fact, half of the jobs I've done after graduation I could have done with no degree, but I'm still glad I went to uni. I still keep in touch with people I met there, and a lot off stuff I learned off campus.

I'm glad I did a combined course tho (comp sci and audio tech). I was quite good as the comp sci stuff, but found quite a few of the modules a little dull. I found the audio tech side much more interesting, and learned a lot more during these modules. Even tho audio tech isn't the best degree to have job wise (too many people after too few jobs), it's a handy skill for me to have. Knowing a bit about music means I can now produce my own tunes and use all sorts of gear I would normally not have a clue about... Making music has now become one of my main hobbies.

Off topic: Reason 4 is out today - YAY!

 

[NathanE]

Now come on. You've just got your knickers in a twist because I pointed out that you didn't seem to know what degree classification you had!

Not at all - you made a remark about degrees being given out in crisp packets. Directed at me. Presumably because I made the dubious "error" of writing "1.1" instead of "1st".

But that's beside the point, you made inflammatory posts which have successfully derailed the thread by about 2 pages.

 

[w11tho]

You should let other people call themselves whatever they want. You even said it doesn't do any harm, so why worry about it?

It's not something I worry about, just something that irritates me. Sure, I could exercise a little more self control - but where's the fun in that!

Not at all - you made a remark about degrees being given out in crisp packets. Directed at me. Presumably because I made the dubious "error" of writing "1.1" instead of "1st".

I think it was cornflake packets, but not to worry! I certainly believe that there are waaaay too many people going to University these days, but I don't blame those who perhaps shouldn't be there, for taking up the oppurtunity. I blame the government for instilling in people that to succeed, you need to get a degree. I'd be far happier to see lots of vocational courses, training up plumbers, carpenters, brickies, electricians et al.

But that's beside the point, you made inflammatory posts which have successfully derailed the thread by about 2 pages.

Woe is me.

 

[DAVEM]

Now come on. You've just got your knickers in a twist because I pointed out that you didn't seem to know what degree classification you had! The rest of my posts have simply been pointing out to someone that doing a few maths modules and using what you've learnt in your job, doesn't make you a mathematician. I'm in a fairly good position to judge, as I work in a mathematics dept (only as a lowly student, mind) and am surrounded by actual mathematicians! I don't think he's doing any harm calling himself a mathematician, but it's a pet hate of mine so I thought I'd clarify the situation.

I "work" in a mathematics department, so surely that makes me equally able to judge. Watch what you assume as it'll make *you* look naive. You *don't* do maths in industry i *do* this as well. So I am in *far* stronger position to comment. Unless you're at Cambridge or Oxford then I attend a stronger department than you, and we are a 5* (upgraded to 6*) RAE rated department.

I don't mean to willy wave in any way, but I'm being slagged off up someone with no real-world experiance. Who seems to think being a PhD candidate means that he can walk about who is or is not a mathematician.

You **** of NathanE's degree, **** me off for saying I do what I do. Seriously if I had a ban hammer you'd be a stain on OcUK's carpet right now.

Davem

 

[Dj_Jestar]

My standpoint on the main points in this thread remain the same:

Those, whilst probably correct, are not relevant in their entirety. This thread is discussing the value of degree's (particularly for IT) not the grade of job you'll be choosing depending on what qualification's you have.

I'm sat here, surrounded by people with PhD's in chem, phsysics and one with biology, and some others with degree's in CS/BS/and there's probably an art grad somewhere around here.

I've got nothing more than a small handful of GCSE's and NVQ's, yet I'm teaching them how to operate their machines/servers and also aiding them with development work - not code cutting, but advising them on the best routes to take for Behaviour Driven Design, Unit testing, repository maintenance, *nix administration, how to manage customers, blah blah.

It boils down to: If you have your head screwed on, you'll be fine. I've worked with some A* "mathematicians" p) some even having 2 or more 1st's in math subjects, who are so utterly clueless about everything outside of numbers it's like looking after a 5 year old. I mean everything from basic manners like tidying up the work kitchen if they leave a mess, to answering "How do I recharge my phone?" (literally..) Equally, a lot of the people I have worked with who did not go to Uni are complete dunces.

My boss turned down 3 candidates whom all had degrees in comp. sci. at varying levels, for a position equal to mine. They were turned down because, and I quote "They don't know their backsides from their elbows" yet because I had proven I knew what I was talking about during my interview, I got the job.

The very fact that a lot of job adverts are now stating "Must have 1st in xyz" shows the value of a degree is lessening, too.

 

[w11tho]

I "work" in a mathematics department, so surely that makes me equally able to judge. Watch what you assume as it'll make *you* look naive. You *don't* do maths in industry i *do* this as well.

I've no doubt you "use" some mathematics, and I've no doubt you've sat a mathematics module or two. This is easy enough to settle - if you're currently being paid to do mathematical research, then by all means point me in the directions of your publications. If not then there are two options: 1) you're not doing what you're being paid for, which is to produce research, 2) your job isn't to produce research. You mentioned before you're a part time maths student - so by "work in maths dept", do you mean "study in maths dept".

Unless you're at Cambridge or Oxford then I attend a stronger department than you, and we are a 5* (upgraded to 6*) RAE rated department.

I'm at Cambridge, and have been for the past 5 years.

I don't mean to willy wave in any way, but I'm being slagged off up someone with no real-world experiance. Who seems to think being a PhD candidate means that he can walk about who is or is not a mathematician.

Well the willy-waving didn't really hit, so I'm sure you'll be forgiven for that one. If you're a "mathematician in industry", then I'll ask again: point me in the direction of your publications. Otherwise, it would seem you're not doing mathematical research and are just using the subject.

You **** of NathanE's degree, **** me off for saying I do what I do. Seriously if I had a ban hammer you'd be a stain on OcUK's carpet right now.

No need to get quite so uptight. I've no doubt you'll continue to call yourself a mathematician so nothing that's been said here is likely to have great affect on anything. I just think it's naive for you to do this, based on a couple of maths modules.

 

[DAVEM]

I've no doubt you "use" some mathematics, and I've no doubt you've sat a mathematics module or two. This is easy enough to settle - if you're currently being paid to do mathematical research, then by all means point me in the directions of your publications. If not then there are two options: 1) you're not doing what you're being paid for, which is to produce research, 2) your job isn't to produce research. You mentioned before you're a part time maths student - so by "work in maths dept", do you mean "study in maths dept".
.

I'm a postgrad, that is what you say you are? *many* industries do not publish for commercial reasons. If you doubt that you really do know nothing.

I'm at Cambridge, and have been for the past 5 years.
.

Who is your supervisor?

Well the willy-waving didn't really hit, so I'm sure you'll be forgiven for that one. If you're a "mathematician in industry", then I'll ask again: point me in the direction of your publications. Otherwise, it would seem you're not doing mathematical research and are just using the subject.
.

I dont think I'm great because I do maths. I wanted to help the OP before you started talking ****.

No need to get quite so uptight. I've no doubt you'll continue to call yourself a mathematician so nothing that's been said here is likely to have great affect on anything. I just think it's naive for you to do this, based on a couple of maths modules.

You are being a twit generally I dont blame him.

 

[w11tho]

I'm a postgrad, that is what you say you are? *many* industries do not publish for commercial reasons. If you doubt that you really do know nothing.

I'm a PhD student. I don't usually use the term "postgrad", because it can mean all manner of things - M.Phils, CASMs, MSci's... But yes, I am post graduation! If you haven't any publications through your work, then what about before? By all means whip them over MSN. Or are you suggesting that you were taken on to produce mathematical research given no prior record of doing so?

Who is your supervisor?

By all means MSN (in trust) me and I'll give you my details. I assume this would iron over any doubts?

I dont think I'm great because I do maths. I wanted to help the OP before you started talking ****.

Calm yourself. I've only pointed out my opinion - and let's face it, given that it's been received like this, it's unlikely that you'll take much notice of it.

You are being a twit generally I dont blame him.

Well that's not very nice.

 

[Nitefly]

And breeeeeeeeeeeathe...

 

[Chrisss]

The very fact that a lot of job adverts are now stating "Must have 1st in xyz" shows the value of a degree is lessening, too.

I have never seen such a job advert.

 

[D.P.]

I have never seen such a job advert.

I have. Most of the jobs/places I applied for required a 1st.

 

[Chrisss]

What sort of jobs were they?

 

[DAVEM]

w11tho is alright.


Davem

 

[digisatman]

w11tho is alright.


Davem

so theres peace now?

 

[DAVEM]

so theres peace now?

peacefire here.