how useful is a computing degree, honestly

[AthlonTom]

well i dont live anywhere near london so i dont expect to be on £30k by 25 but i do hope to be on £20-25k by 25, aim for £30k by 30, where i live living isnt anywhere near as expensive as london, and im within range to get jobs in cheltenham, gloucester, swindon etc so theres still a lot of possibilities

i neither expect or dont expect to be on better money than a graduate, i dont think it matters whether you have a degree or not, i think as long as you have something under your belt (preferably experiance OR a degree) then its dependent entirely on how the person chooses to pursue there career rise, afterall things dont happen if you dont do something about it yourself

i dont disagree that a degree is helpful, a degree + experiance and your well on your way BUT in my opinion the amount of time it takes and the money it costs outweighs the benefits

sorry if i came accross arrogant or anything with the whole fiance + mortgage thing, im just in a good mood because i finally move into my new place tomorow after a damn long wait

Not critisizing in anyway - your decisions are your own and all that, but is there an advantage to getting engaged and having a mortgage when you young - rather than living a little?

 

[mrbios]

Not critisizing in anyway - your decisions are your own and all that, but is there an advantage to getting engaged and having a mortgage when you young - rather than living a little?

the mortgage yes, everyone always says get on the property ladder as soon as you can, havent come across anyone who has said differently, wether thats true or not i suppose ill find out soon enough

as for the engagement, probably not but its a decision im happy with, ive done the partying, drinking thing and got a bit bored of it, now ive settled down and dont regret it one bit

 

[BigT]

sorry if i came accross arrogant or anything with the whole fiance + mortgage thing, im just in a good mood because i finally move into my new place tomorow after a damn long wait

No you didn't come across as arragont at all, I was just really interested to see how you thought your prospects would fare as time progressed. I agree with you about getting on the property ladder as quickly as possible - I did it myself and have reaped rewards from it over the last ten years.

I am also fascinated that you think getting in debt to the tune of £100K's at an interest rate of 5-7% is a good investment choice long term but getting yourself £20K in debt at <1% interest is a poor choice for your career long term. I'm not saying it is right or wrong (although it is probably obvious I see it differently), just good for discussion.

And as a final point, you're right that there is certainly a lot of IT possibilities in the geographical area you're in. A lot of big firms involved in IT have bases around there. In fact I'm currently working closely with QinetiQ and Serco who have some of their best people based not a million miles away from where you're talking about.

 

[PMKeates]

I'd get a degree.

I'm doing a fair amount of work to do with recruitment at the moment (which is odd, as it's not something I should really do, but I'm sorta the only one that really understands the roles) and we have a few openings that are "graduate positions" and a few that are not. The graduate positions are starting at more money than I am getting paid, despite me starting at the company when it was founded 3 years ago and having an understand of virtually all aspects of our business.

I regret not going to university immensely. I almost feel like it may have destroyed the first 5-10 years of my career.

 

[BigT]

I'd get a degree.

I'm doing a fair amount of work to do with recruitment at the moment (which is odd, as it's not something I should really do, but I'm sorta the only one that really understands the roles) and we have a few openings that are "graduate positions" and a few that are not. The graduate positions are starting at more money than I am getting paid, despite me starting at the company when it was founded 3 years ago and having an understand of virtually all aspects of our business.

I regret not going to university immensely. I almost feel like it may have destroyed the first 5-10 years of my career.

My wife is in exactly the same position as you and has had equal regrets. She runs pretty much everything in her department but her managers, who are all graduates are obviously on more money but with less work experience, get much of the credit and the promotions.

In fact she regretted it so much that she's spent the last five years studying for an OU degree. It has nothing to do with what she works in but it will allow her to apply for the internal senior management positions which she has every tick in the box for except "Education: degree level or equivalent".

 

[Haircut]

Count yourself lucky. Maybe it's because I'm in London, but even "Junior Technicians" with £21k salaries often have "You will have a 1st Degree in a such and such subject" yet when I applied for them anyway, they didn't care that I don't even have any a-levels.

Specifying that they have a first degree is a very different thing to specifying they have a first class degree.
A first degree simply means an undergraduate degree, i.e. not a masters and is nothing about the degree classification.

I can say I've ever seen a job where they specify a first.
Once you get past the initial job it's pretty much down to experience anyway, even for big investment banks and the like.
I've done OK with my 2.2.

 

[Chrisss]

^ Thought that might be the case.

 

[Dj_Jestar]

Specifying that they have a first degree is a very different thing to specifying they have a first class degree.
A first degree simply means an undergraduate degree, i.e. not a masters and is nothing about the degree classification.

I can say I've ever seen a job where they specify a first.
Once you get past the initial job it's pretty much down to experience anyway, even for big investment banks and the like.
I've done OK with my 2.2.

They were phrased as "a 1st in .." does that make any difference? I'll hold my hands up and say I barely understand how it all works.

 

[Tetsujin]

While your degree did not help with any aspects of your job, was it a requirement of the job applications? i.e. did the job spec ask for degree educated or equivalent? The reason I ask is that, while I agree it is often the case that you learn more elsewheres that helps in the real world than you do on the degree, the degree is the members card to join the good job club in so many cases.

Nope, it wasn't.

 

[mrbios]

I am also fascinated that you think getting in debt to the tune of £100K's at an interest rate of 5-7% is a good investment choice long term but getting yourself £20K in debt at <1% interest is a poor choice for your career long term. I'm not saying it is right or wrong (although it is probably obvious I see it differently), just good for discussion.

I dont know how to explain my thoughts on it in any simple way, i suppose i dont really think of a mortgage as being in debt whereas i do with uni costs.

both my parents had degrees and never really made any proper use of them, my dad makes some use of his as a graphics designer on apple macs but other than that nothing else comes out of it, and my older sister never bothered with uni either which didnt really inspire me to go. Both my parents and my fiancée's parents have been in terrible debt and ive sort of made it a life goal not to ever become in any (significant) form of debt, i guess you could say im avoiding it due to the thought of the fee's, but at the same time i never have had any desire to go and since getting a full time job, no need to either.

while i may say that i dont think uni is worth it i guess im being a bit blunt with my words, as i dont think its worth it with most courses relating to IT, for certain aspects i can understand its use, programming for example. It might be different if its the sort of thing you enjoy but in my view its something that requires a bit of guidance to pick it up at any decent rate, whereas things like web coding are quite easy to pick up through trial and error/guides on the internet and get good enough that you could get a job and gain experiance (and with that a greater understanding) in the subject

the above bit could be completely wrong, but its just my limited understanding and views on it

my view on its quite hard to explain i suppose, i dont even know if what ive said makes any sense at all as ive just gone back and edited bits of this post, phonecall in the middle, etc

 

[BigT]

Nope, it wasn't.

Nor the current job? Sweeping generalisation but I'm guessing you work for a small firm as it is quite unusual for a degree to not be a requirement in larger firms for software developer roles.

my view on its quite hard to explain i suppose

I think you put it across well enough. While I would always encourage people to obtain a degree, I acknowledge it is not for everyone and if you've got your head screwed on and you're happy then what more can you ask for? I certainly wish I'd had your attitude to debt at your age - it took me a long time to learn to save up for things before buying them.

 

[Flying Gribble]

Well, you wouldn't get through the door in the company I work for without one.

 

[meghatronic]

They were phrased as "a 1st in .." does that make any difference? I'll hold my hands up and say I barely understand how it all works.

You may be right then. But that is incredibly rare. I've never seen an advert for a position exclusively open to those with a first, even top investment banks, consultancy firms and PhD places.

 

[Tetsujin]

Nor the current job? Sweeping generalisation but I'm guessing you work for a small firm as it is quite unusual for a degree to not be a requirement in larger firms for software developer roles.

Correct, for both it was just experience. For the current job in fact it was because 'I Knew A Guy', who already knew i was good at what i do, so took me on based on that.

And yes, both times (at least in terms of head count) for small firms, and i know obviously the points i made apply more to this end of the market than the higher end, but i still believe experience is more valuable.

would i, knowing this, and were it possible, go back and change things and not go to uni? hell no. it's still a massively valuable experience and i learned many things there that i wouldn't have if i'd gone straight into work to gain experience, and not lewd things either, sadly. but ultimately the position i'm in now is down to me being able to demonstrate, via my history of stuff i've done while working, my abilities. the degree has nothing to do with it.

anyway there is /clearly/ no absolute answer to this, because it all depends what you want to go into. if you want to go to a small firm where you have the chance to make a difference, and likely as not the MD'll be in the interview, you're more likely to find demonstrable work being valuable than a degree certificate. for some faceless huge corporation where you want to be a number and try to move through the already-established ranks that bit of paper will be more valuable to the middle management dude interviewing you who just wants to tick the right boxes.

and i know those are sweeping generalisations. just, taking the original question at face value, there were no hints as to what the OP wanted to do post-degree, so you have to try to see it from all angles, as the 'answer' differs depending what he aims to do.

 

[BigT]

I think you talk a lot of sense Tetsujin. I actually think we share the same opinion that the degree itself doesn't teach you more than the experience you can gain from work or indeed personal interest in some cases like yours.

I would add this though. If ever the small company goes bust your degree will always mean you can fall back to working for those big faceless corporations if needs must. This is why my recommendation to the OP of whether to jack the degree in or not was to stick with it.

The OP may well want to work in a role that doesn't need a degree, he will probably learn more about the real world work place in the first six weeks of work than three years of a degree and he may go on to be a millionaire never having needed his degree - but the degree will keep options open for him for life that he may one day want or need to turn to.

 

[ArmyofHarmony]

I've seen several jobs that require first class degrees... however that's only because my eyes have scanned about a million job adverts. By several, I mean 2...


Some of my friends parents dont have degrees and are vastly richer than a lot of my other friends. That's not the point though... it's still worth doing a degree if you have the choice.


lol, I completely failed a job interview yesterday, not because I performed badly, but because the interviewers knew I wasn't cut out for the job from the first moment they read my CV:/ It was for a sales driven role (recruitment / headhunting).

He absolutely battered me in the interview with statements like "PLEASE don't work in a sales environment, you'd be terrible" <- those exact words lol

He was brutally honest though

 

[Tetsujin]

amen to that, BigT.

 

[triggerthat]

Hey,

Am currently in my third year doing a placement at a highly respectable company and it is fantastic. You certainly learn a lot and I wouldn't of had the job if I didn't have a degree. The experience I've gain doesn't compare at all to what I've learnt at University. Saying that, a needed a degree to get the job, so it is a catch 22.

University is not the answer to everything. I feel it depends on the situation. Many people go and do degrees because they feel trapped in their jobs and think the only way forward is to get a degree. However, some individuals have done very well despite not going to University. So I think the whole 'Experience vs University' argument is just meh. I think a lot of factors go into it. Luck, place, time.

I started a job prior to University (I.T. Support) and I discovered that I didn't see myself doing this in the long run, especially as the salary sucked and there was no opportunity for growth. I could have went for another job, but I would probably end up doing the same thing, given my experience. So off to Uni I went.

I do think that it depends on how hard you try. I worked very hard in the first two year off Uni and managed to secure a very good placement which stands me in a very good chance of getting a graduate role which would be fantastic.