How would pay per mile car tax work?

Surely the easiest way to "charge per mile" isn't actually to charge against the car, but an extra charge on the cost of fuel? This would, obviously, require a different solution for electric cars, but for ICE cars, the more miles you do or the less efficient your car is, then the more you pay.

Surely that is the easiest way to do this.

Add 10p per litre. For a car doing 10k per year

For a car doing 40 mpg = £114
For a car doing 30 mpg = £151
For a car doing 20 mpg = £227

If they need more or less taxes, then adjust this charge. But that seems like the overall easiest way to do this surely?

Otherwise, as mentioned, going off the odometer could be easily altered. Maybe the solution is to scan the cars ECU every year, as I believe the true mileage is logged there. But then it'll just be a matter of time before that is hacked too. ICE cars I suppose you just keep a system similar to current VED rules I guess. You don't want to bump the price of all electricity, and it might be more difficult to distinguish between electricity to heat the house or cook the food, and that used to drive around in.
 
xs2man said:
But that seems like the overall easiest way to do this surely?
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The problem being, as far as I can see, PPM is being discussed specifically as a replacement for fuel duty and fuel dependent taxes, as the tax receipts will be reducing as cars move to be more electric and they can't figure out a sensible way to tax EV specific electricity use.
 
xs2man said:
Surely the easiest way to "charge per mile" isn't actually to charge against the car, but an extra charge on the cost of fuel? This would, obviously, require a different solution for electric cars, but for ICE cars, the more miles you do or the less efficient your car is, then the more you pay
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That's how it's currently done, the entire point is finding a different way to do it once a significant proportion of road use is by vehicles that don't use fuel?
 
I can see something similar to what they have in Japan (where they use a box inside the car for the toll roads), where you have a sender unit inside the car that constantly uploads information to a central database for mileage. (bit like smart meters for energy)
Possibly, manufacturers will be "advised" to fit these to all vehicles manufactured at some point in the future.
I mean, a lot of modern cars do OTA software updates, so the infrastructure is partially there already.
 
Have there been any examples of clocking EV's yet .
.. for the consumer that would be a further foible, and would have had a lot of publicity, but also manufacturers, might be concerned since those battery warranties are for more years/km's than ICE.
(the new companies offering 3rd party battery warranties might be concerned too)
 
quoi - that's the predicate that ev mileometers might inaccurately capture miles for pence per mile charge (I don't think they are compromised)
 
Cyber-Mav said:
So is this going ahead then?
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I think there's some vague rumours it might be part of the forthcoming budget but nothing particularly substantial.

The most recent discussion seems to have been prompted by the RAC making comment on motorists not having seen the benefit of 5p fuel duty cuts, followed up with the fact that they think a pay-per-mile system will eventually be a necessary replacement for fuel duty and so people should start thinking about it now.

As usual, various tabloids and local rags have again picked it up as a topic, thrown numbers around that are plucked out of thin air, made vague statements about how it could happen that sound like it is happening but stop short of explicitly saying that and then everyone gets in a panic, petitions start flying around etc.

The RAC have felt the need to put out a clarification, given the nature of the reporting off the back of their originally published comments:

Clarification on RAC position regarding pay-per-mile taxation following inaccurate media report​


We’d like to clarify our comments about a pay-per-mile tax system following an inaccurate media report which implied we were suggesting an additional tax on drivers.

As more electric vehicles come on to the road, a replacement tax system will be needed to ensure the Government doesn’t lose too much money and that EVs pay for their use of the roads. We have said consistently that whatever any new taxation system looks like, the most important thing for us is that it’s simple and fair to drivers of both conventional and electric vehicles. We don’t want to see any additional taxation of drivers.

We’d also like to point out that fuel duty – currently 53p a litre – is already effectively a tax per mile for drivers of petrol and diesel vehicles, the only variable is how fuel efficient a car is. As fuel duty isn't printed on receipts, it’s not very obvious how much tax we're paying every time we fill up. At the moment we calculate a driver with a 40mpg car is paying 6p per mile in fuel duty, but crucially this works out to be far more as VAT is then added on top of that and the retailer’s margin.

There is clearly much work to be done on this which is why we were encouraging the Government to start thinking about it now.
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media.rac.co.uk

Clarification on RAC position regarding pay-per-mile taxation following inaccurate media report

Clarification on comments about a pay-per-mile tax system following an inaccurate media report
media.rac.co.uk media.rac.co.uk
 
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sovietspybob said:
there's already a huge number of cars being clocked as it is with people taking out low milage lease deals and then just generally wanting to keep the value of their car up.

No one really likes to talk about it but it's rampant with more powerful/enthusiast cars, do we really believe all those Honda type R's, Subaru STi's, Evos, GTR's etc have such low milage and are really only driven 1500 miles a year?

I'd wager a lot of them have a milage haircut fairly regularly before each MOT to keep the value up as it is, if you're linking fairly substantial amounts of tax money to it it'll be everywhere.
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Is it too hard to imagine someone not needing to use a car much? I do about 2,000 miles a year with about 50% being business miles (not commuting). As such I gravitated towards a silly car as mpg doesn't matter too much, I spend nearly as much on VED as I do fuel. I walk and cycle to work, drinking establishments, socials, friends, parents. I have 99% of what I need and want on my door step and think it would be great if many others also had that convenience i.e. the 15 minute city.

In the grand scheme of things these are what cost me most to least. Depreciation, insurance, repairs, servicing, fuel, VED. I'm in favour of charge by the mile and think it should be done with a slight reduction in fuel tax and lowering/removal of VED.
 
Cyber-Mav said:
If they charging per mile then scrap road tax and fuel duty altogether otherwise it's just an additional tax
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Exactly I'll be happy to pay off they scrap what they already charge us.

Surely not realistic is EV cars only from a specific date. Isn't it really uncommon to backdate charges like this? It's always from a date in the near future so as to not penalise current owners but alter new car choices going forward.
 
Cyber-Mav said:
If they charging per mile then scrap road tax and fuel duty altogether otherwise it's just an additional tax
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They will have to, otherwise the economy will be even more crippled.

Upping the cost or fuel/transport affects the prices of everything.
 
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