HTPC questions/spec me one please!

squiffy said:
Prescott v Athlon. :) how's 26-30 idle, 40 HEAVY load sound on my rig? Compared to 41 idle, 52 load on a P4 Northwood 2.4ghz.

It's difficult to directly compare numbers like that, as it's well known that certain motherboard manufacturers and specific models in particular over and under-read temperatures. The only way to see how much heat is being produced, is to have a look at Intel and AMD's data sheets. Notwithstanding the fact that you have different heatsinks.

A quick check on the various websites, shows that a 800fsb P4 2.4Ghz, using 66W, whereas a AMD Sempron 2800 uses 62W. Thermal output is proportional to clock speed increase, so a 3200 is likely to be around 66W, so the difference in temperatures shouldn't be as great as you suggest all things being equal (identical heatsinks, case fan configurations and thermal interfaces between processor and heatsink base)

That's beside the point though. What type of system to go for really depends what kind of media PC we're talking about here - if you just need it to serve up normal films and a bit of music, you could probably get away with a P3. If you require HD content to be played and you want to use ffdshow for post processing to improve the picture quality on DVDs and the like, you're going to need something beefy.
 
daz said:
It's difficult to directly compare numbers like that, as it's well known that certain motherboard manufacturers and specific models in particular over and under-read temperatures. The only way to see how much heat is being produced, is to have a look at Intel and AMD's data sheets. Notwithstanding the fact that you have different heatsinks.

A quick check on the various websites, shows that a 800fsb P4 2.4Ghz, using 66W, whereas a AMD Sempron 2800 uses 62W. Thermal output is proportional to clock speed increase, so a 3200 is likely to be around 66W, so the difference in temperatures shouldn't be as great as you suggest all things being equal (identical heatsinks, case fan configurations and thermal interfaces between processor and heatsink base)

It's also impossible to compare datasheet TDP ratings AMD vs Intel. it would probably be even more misleading than comparing temps on different mobos! Firstly they measure in completely different ways. AMD give an absolute worst case figure, whereas Intel quote a "typical" figure which is approx 20% less than the chip theoretically achieve.

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=17568372

Also as you can see from this thread it varies massively from batch to batch of chips. Although the AMD site rates my Venice 3000+ as 82W, the reality is that the TDP is only 32.4W. Most semprons are likely to be somewhere around 40W or less.

Marc
 
marc mercer said:
It's also impossible to compare datasheet TDP ratings AMD vs Intel. it would probably be even more misleading than comparing temps on different mobos! Firstly they measure in completely different ways. AMD give an absolute worst case figure, whereas Intel quote a "typical" figure which is approx 20% less than the chip theoretically achieve.

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=17568372

Also as you can see from this thread it varies massively from batch to batch of chips. Although the AMD site rates my Venice 3000+ as 82W, the reality is that the TDP is only 32.4W. Most semprons are likely to be somewhere around 40W or less.

Marc

Interesting. AMD gave two figures from the specs I was reading - "typical" and "maximum". I would assume that the maximum figure refers to the processor under load.
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How are you measuring the thermal output of your processor so accurately though?
 
Have a look at the thread I linked to in my previous post. AMD encodes the thermal characteristics of each indivual chip into the processor. The program Tcasemax extracts this data and gives you the TDP. Measurements made on SPCR with a variety of chips indicate these are accurate. Extraoplating power readings taken from my own machine shows that my processor does indeed use 32W or less.

Marc
 
this thread seems to have gone in a different direction so, erm, sorry for this. I'm just speccing up my htpc and wondered if anyone had any better ideas than these:

MB-046-MS MSI K8N Neo4 Platinum nForce4 Ultra (Socket 939) PCI-Express Motherboard (MB-046-MS) £64.95 £64.95

CA-005-ZA Zalman HD160 Home Theatre PC Enclosure - Silver (CA-005-ZA) £186.95 £186.95

GX-060-LT Leadtek GeForce 6200 Turbo Cache 256MB DDR TV-Out/DVI (PCI-Express) - Retail (GX-060-LT) £27.95 £27.95

HD-023-SA Samsung SpinPoint P HD080HJ 80GB SATA-II 8MB Cache - OEM (HD-023-SA) £30.95 £30.95

CA-000-SS Seasonic S12 430W Silent ATX2.0 Power Supply (CA-000-SS) £52.95 £52.95

Subtotal £363.75
VAT £63.66
Total £427.41

on top of that I'll be using the CPU, RAM, DVD/RW, DTV card from my current system and put in the 250GB samsung spinpoint I have lying around.

can anyone recommend me a *really* quiet heatsink that would be suitable and an analog TV card, please.

I am thinking of getting a fanless PSU instead of the seasonic but not decided yet. Might see how quiet I can get all that (minus the PSU) before i decide.
 
Hi Alucks, I'm not sure if you caught my post here:-

What type of system to go for really depends what kind of media PC we're talking about here - if you just need it to serve up normal films and a bit of music, you could probably get away with a P3. If you require HD content to be played and you want to use ffdshow for post processing to improve the picture quality on DVDs and the like, you're going to need something beefy.

Exactly what do you want your HTPC to do? :)
 
Why not go for a 6150 motherboard like the Asus A8N-VM CSM or the MSI-K8NGM2-FID as mentioned above?

The on board 6150 gfx are very similar in performance to a 6200 turbocache model and plenty good enough for a HTPC. Apart form losing a couple of PCI slots you won't be compromising anything and will save £40

Marc
 
hey, sorry, I wasn't very specific was i?

basically, I need it for playing mp3s, playing AVI files, watching DVDs and web surfing. i might have to re-encode avis for my GP2X but hopefully i'll havea noth system

I'll check out that board as well. seems like a good idea. The reason I picked the one I was looking at was because of the 7.1 sound and because of the PCI slots. I figure I need at least 3 but was considering 4.

cheers
 
And if sending video to a projector you don't want to use S-Video, Component or DVI or DVI with HDMI adaptor. Then want digital audio out to a AV processor/av amplifier for Dolby Digital & DTS processing.
 
well, erm, I'm going to get mocked for this but I have a 19" TFT I quite like with DVI in that I plan to continue to use. Maybe I'll buy a large SDTV 2nd hand if I decide to at some point. I won't be planning using a projector (for a few years at least) and won't be buying an HDTV for some years (seeing as they won't do anything right now anyway with the tv signal sent out in the uk). tbh, I'm gonna have to go jargon deciphering as I didn't understand a lot of what you guys have said. that FFDshow stuff looks quite neat but does it require an HDTV to be of use?

marc, the MSI-K8NGM2-FID looks pretty much ideal actually, cheers. I was shying away from mATX as I figured if I had the space in my case I may as well use it but with the 7.1 onboard sound, passive cooling and adequate graphics I think it would be great. My one consideration with a mobo was the number of PCI slots but it's the number of free slots at the back of the case that's the consideration as I plan to have:

1 digital tv card, 1 analog tv card, a sata pass through pci plate thing and I would also quite like (but i don't know if they exist) a pci fan controller switch thing. I would consider modding one up if they don't exist. I do have a fan controller already but the case I'm planning on doesn't have any spare external 5.25" bays
 
You could go for the terratec digital TV card. It's dual tuner and goes in the PCI-E 1xt slot. That would free up an extra pci slot.

Another option would be the compro T300 .. it is both analogue and digital.

I see nothing wrong with using your 19" TFT on dvi as your main screen. It will give you a nice HD resolution too.

I do know of one sata pci card that gives you an external sata connector in a pci slot you still have the issue of power though - I'd probably just run a sata cable + power connector out a hole in the back of a PCI slot myself if you need easy external access.

marc
 
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Cyber-Mav said:
get a gfx card with avivo or purevideo support. you will regret it if you don;t.

do you (or anyone) know if the MSI-K8NGM2-FID supports this?

it says on the nvidia website that the 6150 supports some of the HDTV features (is that what purevideo is about?) but not all. Which are the ones I should be most concerned about?

marc, for the external SATA thing I don't need power as I have an Icy Box which is powered from the mains but a hole in the back with a SATA data cable just coming out seems a pretty good idea.

So really, I guess I'm not going for a full on HTPC but just a quiet PC i only use for media with decent sound and best video quality I can get on my TFT.
 
Question on HTPC

Whats the big deal with over speccing a HTPC. Am I right in assuming that if its quiet and fast thats everything sorted.

I only ask as I am thinking about the Zalman, and the use would be 50/50 games and recording.

AM I barking...?

Spec I thought of was...

Zalman HD160
Not set on mobo yet
running my current X850xt for a while
Du COre E6400
2gb of ddr2
HDD to be determined, welcome thoughts...
 
Reaper_9239 said:
Whats the big deal with over speccing a HTPC. Am I right in assuming that if its quiet and fast thats everything sorted.
Spec I thought of was...

You need to "overspec" to scale to HD resolutions, you don't want to use a 1.5ghz CPU thinking that'll be sufficient, it probably won't. Yes for file storage/music playback 1ghz with 512MB will be more than suitable, but 1080P and SD scaled to 730P or 1080P requires some CPU power. If you look on avsforums most people use 3ghz P4 for HTPC's. My brothers 2.4/2.6ghz Northwood is incapable of playing back 1080P without stuttering. It does have a Geforce MX440 graphics card but that shouldn't make a difference.

I don't see the big deal with Nvidia purevideo, FFDSHOW will the same.

That spec you mentioned is "overspecced" in CPU, memory and graphics card section if you ignore gaming factor for now.

I use a SC AMD A64 3700+ at stock, 1GB RAM, Nvidia 6150 or ATI X300 GFX, with CAQ enabled, so drops down to 1.1ghz when idle, 2.2ghz when required, and that plays 1080p material and scales. I'll be getting a 1080p LCD panel somtime. Shame gaming system is elseware as gaming on a 37" 1920x1050 panel should look fantastic, compared to "tiny" 20"
 
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Stripe said:
does anyone know whether I'll be able to fit a Scythe Ninja heatsink in a (largeish) htpc case and run it in fanless mode?

That depends on the case, it definatly will not fit in a Silverstone SST-LC-13, however an Arctic Cooling Freezer 64 Pro will (with a little bit of tweaking) and due to the position of the power supply I use mine fanless.

I have to ask why people are over specking their HTPC cases? do you really need a tinny LCD that you are not going to be able to read unless you are 2 inches away or a volume knob! is that not what remotes are for. Save money and keep it simple!
 
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