Hubris from Intel?

[Mesai]

That's nothing to do with them being ARM based though. That's the benefit of having tight integration of the OS and apps, making use of the various hardware acceleration features in Apple's chips, rather than anything specific to the ARM architecture.

You can do the same tasks on a Windows or Linux laptop. I find macOS itself a relatively poor experience but the hardware is unbeatable.

If the MacBook had an Intel processor it would be far less appealing (to me). Not having to deal with fans or heat, and having excellent battery life while maintaining performance is a big plus, which ARM enables.

 

[rare]

Not having to deal with fans or heat, and having excellent battery life while maintaining performance is a big plus, which ARM enables.

It also ensures that after 6 odd years they lose all software support

They key strength of x86 is that I can install Windows on a device from the 90’s and have (relative) software compatibility over decades.

Not dissing Macs though, I like them - it’s just that each platform has its own weaknesses and strengths.

 

[Mesai]

It also ensures that after 6 odd years they lose all software support

They key strength of x86 is that I can install Windows on a device from the 90’s and have (relative) software compatibility over decades.

Not dissing Macs though, I like them - it’s just that each platform has its own weaknesses and strengths.

Completely agree.

It’s not like the MacBook hardware would be useless, but obviously Apple don’t have an open platform so you have something like Asahi Linux where they’re writing the drivers from scratch, so you could run Linux on it once Apple ditch support.

I’d love to see other ARM laptops. Would be a big improvement for gaming laptops.

 

[Armageus]

which ARM enables.

It's nothing to do with ARM. It has everything do with the Apple specific features that have been added to the SoC that contains ARM cores. (Things like the neural accelerators, image signal processor, and the vast amount of video and audio formats that are hardware accelerated)

Taking an off the shelf ARM core or SoC and building a laptop with it, doesn't get you the performance Apple's chips do.

 

[Mesai]

It's nothing to do with ARM. It has everything do with the Apple specific features that have been added to the SoC that contains ARM cores. (Things like the neural accelerators, image signal processor, and the vast amount of video and audio formats that are hardware accelerated)

Taking an off the shelf ARM core or SoC and building a laptop with it, doesn't get you the performance Apple's chips do.

The whole point is that the likes of Nvidia and AMD will be making chips for laptops, with the appropriate configuration to best support a laptop.

Yes, what you’re saying is that it’s how you use and build it that matters, but the instruction set itself is more efficient so a well designed chip will be more effective than the equivalent x86 chip.

Obviously Apple build for one configuration whereas say an AMD ARM CPU would be used across different hardware and OSs, where performance will vary. Apple couldn’t get the same performance on any existing x86 chip even if they designed one themselves.

 

[jigger]

The whole point is that the likes of Nvidia and AMD will be making chips for laptops, with the appropriate configuration to best support a laptop.

Yes, what you’re saying is that it’s how you use and build it that matters, but the instruction set itself is more efficient so a well designed chip will be more effective than the equivalent x86 chip.

Obviously Apple build for one configuration whereas say an AMD ARM CPU would be used across different hardware and OSs, where performance will vary. Apple couldn’t get the same performance on any existing x86 chip even if they designed one themselves.

Well for some tasks/use types ARM will be interesting, but X86 offers very strong performance along with a mature platform to work from. What AMD have done with Zen APU’s is continuously raising the bar and lowering costs and Apple have the highend market pretty well stitched up.

 

[Mesai]

Well for some tasks/use types ARM will be interesting, but X86 offers very strong performance along with a mature platform to work from. What AMD have done with Zen APU’s is continuously raising the bar and lowering costs and Apple have the highend market pretty well stitched up.

AMDs progress is very impressive and I’m hoping there’s more in it - zen 5 should be good.

AMD really struggle with availability though. I can get every flavour of laptop with an Intel oven, but AMD are always late to the party.

 

[jigger]

AMDs progress is very impressive and I’m hoping there’s more in it - zen 5 should be good.

AMD really struggle with availability though. I can get every flavour of laptop with an Intel oven, but AMD are always late to the party.

Intel’s production capacity is massive and demand is in toilet relatively speaking, is the polar opposite of AMD’s issues.

 

[Mesai]

Intel’s production capacity is massive and demand is in toilet relatively speaking, is the polar opposite of AMD’s issues.

I think they also have contracts with certain manufacturers - same with Nvidia.

That being said, AMD make way more from their server market, so it makes sense to focus their capacity there.

 

[jigger]

I think they also have contracts with certain manufacturers - same with Nvidia.

That being said, AMD make way more from their server market, so it makes sense to focus their capacity there.

The market moves in phases usually. It’s like playing whack-a-mole for AMD. Desktops - Laptops - DC rinse and repeat plus consoles every 5th cycle or so. AMD’s release cadence and progression has been mightily impressive and adding Zen ARM to the roster might make sense.

 

[Grim5]

It's nothing to do with ARM. It has everything do with the Apple specific features that have been added to the SoC that contains ARM cores. (Things like the neural accelerators, image signal processor, and the vast amount of video and audio formats that are hardware accelerated)

Taking an off the shelf ARM core or SoC and building a laptop with it, doesn't get you the performance Apple's chips do.

Well put. If all ARM was equal Apple wouldn't have its performance advantage over all Android products. No one is even close to having such a well oiled machine when it comes to building hardware and matching software than Apple does

 

[img]

Arm would make no difference to running windows for me. I have mac for work as then i dont have to suffer the worse quality devices, terrible agents. My dream is to have linux on mac hardware but cirp secuirty does not allow linux on end user devices even though nearly every server is some kind of linux.

 

[Mesai]

Well put. If all ARM was equal Apple wouldn't have its performance advantage over all Android products. No one is even close to having such a well oiled machine when it comes to building hardware and matching software than Apple does

The new Snapdragon processor, which several different Android devices will use, is looking to be faster than the new iPhone 15 Pro chip.

Again, the integration and configuration will never be for just one device, but you can create a well rounded chip for general use, which is basically everything outside of Apple. AMD or Nvidia could definitely build an Mx competitor for the general market.

 

[humbug]

I think AMD / Nvidia intention with ARM is to licence the IP designs so OEM's can manufacture them themselves, in exactly the same way AMD don't manufacture the PS5 and XBox SoC's, they simply licence the design as IP and Microsoft / Sony go to TSMC to manufacture them.

That's cheaper for OEM's than buying chips from Intel and more convenient because they can manufacture how many they like when they like, they are in control of the supply.

So Intel saying "oh.... ARM aren't a threat in the PC space" is them knowing its a very real threat to their business model. They don't like it....

 

[ooStevo]

I wonder if they will sabotage ARM like they did with AMD64.

 

[humbug]

I wonder if they will sabotage ARM like they did with AMD64.

They are using AMD64, They just call it X86_64

 

[Dalandius]

There was also one where he said "AMD are in the rear view mirror" His own BoD told him to walk that back as it was obvious to anyone with even a passing interest that this was blatantly not true.

"AMD are in the rear view mirror" would be there if they had caught you and where about to overtake you?

 

[ooStevo]

They are using AMD64, They just call it X86_64

Yh I know,I just meant when Intel were practicing their brown envelope techniques to stop AMD Athlon XP/X2 from gaining traction.

 

[humbug]

Yh I know,I just meant when Intel were practicing their brown envelope techniques to stop AMD Athlon XP/X2 from gaining traction.

Oh they tried, but failed.

Intel and AMD now have a cross licencing agreement, AMD gets X86 and in turn Intel gets AMD64

If you're on an Intel machine go to this explorer address..

 

[ooStevo]

Oh they tried, but failed.

Intel and AMD now have a cross licencing agreement, AMD gets X86 and in turn Intel gets AMD64

If you're on an Intel machine go to this explorer address..

I thought AMD already had x86? Or do you mean from yonks ago?