I don't know mathS but applied for Electrical Engineering, drop out?

[danza]

No, you wouldn't need to do an apprenticeship. It just helps by giving you experience which you don't necessarily need if going the academic route. I somehow missed that it was level 2. Level 2 is very basic, and mostly involves the same stuff as level 3, but on a simpler level. By far the biggest jump in terms of academic study and difficulty will be from ONC/D to degree level, or slightly less difficult by doing HNC/D.

Whatever route you take, it'll be a long time before you have a useful qualification - about 3 to 4 years for a HNC/D or 5 for a degree. Note that a HNC/D without experience in engineering is worth bugger all next to a degree with a similar lack of experience. Higher Nationals are very good to take whilst in employment in engineering rather than outside, and with them you can pretty much get to the same level of employment as someone with a degree (although that is largely down to the individual as well as the employer).

Higher Nationals are more practical and guided than a degree, but still include plenty of theory and also degree-level maths depending on the units you take (although a degree will generally be more mathematics-centric). The Higher National route can be easily seen as a cop out if you avoid taking on extra maths based units such as thermodynamics, further analytical maths, mechanical principles etc. and instead opt for more general units such as those which focus on planning, project managing and other specialised, non-mathematical subjects.

 

[Liampope]

I can understand your confusion with what an engineer is, because in this country every man and his dog who uses a tool has decided to (and been allowed to) add the word engineer to his job title. I mean no snobbery, and have every respect for technicians, machinists, fitters, mechanics etc etc, but they are not engineers in the strictest sense. Engineering is an academic proffession in which you generally end up in an office designing/analysing stuff - it's quite possible for a fully qualified engineer not to know one end of a screwdriver from the other (I've met plenty). It is certainly possible, though, for an engineer not to be a practical retard and to retain hands-on practical involvement too (which I did a lot in my previous place).

So if you're sure an engineering degree/career is your ultimate aim, you ideally need to be looking at some sort of engineering diploma/degree foundation year that works towards uni. I'm afraid I dont know enough about the 'alternative' routes in (i.e. not the conventional A-levels==>degree) but they do exist I'm sure (EDIT: the guys above seem to know what they're talking about). Some I think can take you straight into the second year of a degree - e.g. my wife did a chem-eng diploma in Singapore then came over here straight into second year of a uni degree at Loughborough.

Either speak to somebody at college and tell them an engineering degree is your ultimate aim, so what do I do, or maybe look at uni prospectuses and work backwards - they may describe the possible routes onto the courses. I dont remember where it was but years ago I saw some sort of detailed chart showing all the various routes to becomming a proffessional engineer.

You may find you're just as well to do some A-levels (pyhsics, maths) then straight to uni rather than other college courses. I can't remember if you said you have A-levels or not?

 

[Nate Silvers]

So there isn't much point in even doing it then. I don't have any experience at all and I'm too old for an apprenticeship. I might as well just forget about it, glad I didn't pay the exam fee already. Ah well another year on the dole *sigh*

Engineering degrees get slightly out of hand towards the end, final year guys at my place are making a human powered aeroplane. A friend of a friend made an electric car, I believe largely from scratch. Scares the life out of me.

That's crazy, I guess they are born engineers. I'm scared already doing a level 2 basic course :/

 

[Nate Silvers]

I can understand your confusion with what an engineer is, because in this country every man and his dog who uses a tool has decided to (and been allowed to) add the word engineer to his job title. I mean no snobbery, and have every respect for technicians, machinists, fitters, mechanics etc etc, but they are not engineers in the strictest sense. Engineering is an academic proffession in which you generally end up in an office designing/analysing stuff - it's quite possible for a fully qualified engineer not to know one end of a screwdriver from the other (I've met plenty). It is certainly possible, though, for an engineer not to be a practical retard and to retain hands-on practical involvement too (which I did a lot in my previous place).

So if you're sure an engineering degree/career is your ultimate aim, you ideally need to be looking at some sort of engineering diploma/degree foundation year that works towards uni. I'm afraid I dont know enough about the 'alternative' routes in (i.e. not the conventional A-levels==>degree) but they do exist I'm sure. Some I think can take you straight into the second year of a degree - e.g. my wife did a chem-eng diploma in Singapore then came over here straight into second year of a uni degree at Loughborough.

Either speak to somebody at college and tell them an engineering degree is your ultimate aim, so what do I do, or maybe look at uni prospectuses and work backwards - they may describe the possible routes onto the courses. I dont remember where it was but years ago I saw some sort of detailed chart showing all the various routes to becomming a proffessional engineer.

You may find you're just as well to do some A-levels (pyhsics, maths) then straight to uni than other college courses. I can't remember if you said you have A-levels or not?

Really good post. I'd love to be designing on a computer, computers have always been my passion. I might just change courses to Maths I only have a D. I know what you mean about the engineer title, is that because it's such a broad area?

 

[JonJ678]

There was some pretty sound advice from danza and liam, what makes giving up a better alternative?

Doing physics / maths / further maths a levels in a single year is certainly possible if you're willing to work harder than the average A level student, who from what I recall spends most of his evenings drunk. That would then put you bang on the standard route to uni. Otherwise there are foundation years, a girl I know did pretty poorly at school, worked as a chef for a while, then did a foundation year in biochem. She's now doing rather better than I am at uni.

It depends where you want to end up, and how hard you're willing to work to get there. If you're dedicated there are significant rewards from engineering, a friend of mine is spending a placement year in Norway. He's being paid £34k, and has free accomodation. That's unusual, but the jobs are out there.

edit: Don't do maths at uni, it's mental. Computer aided design is awesome, it's probably my favorite area of the course. A part of me feels I should have gone for computer science, but I think I'd rather have programming as a hobby than as something I'm compelled to do well at.

 

[danza]

Don't worry about maths at the moment. Carry on with the intention of completing the level 2, but as said above, ask someone at the college what your options are to end up where you seem to want to end up, i.e. in university.

An apprenticeship would be quite hard to come by at your age, but not impossible. You could try small local companies for some basic work experience to go alongside study, then at least you might get an idea of what goes on at the top and whether a degree is ultimately what you want to pour your life into. Even if you start at the bottom doing admin duties such as booking goods in and dispatching in your current situation with no engineering quals, you can build on this and progress if you find the right company.

This is just one route though. A-levels would definitely put you in better stead for a degree than the other routes I mentioned.

Would you prefer a degree then gaining experience, or experience built on with a slowly developing education?

You can also get into the final year of a degree with the completion of a HND on a progression scheme, which is a far cheaper way of ending up with a degree than 3+ years at university. AFAIK though, not all colleges have such well developed HND to degree progression schemes and only let you skip the first year.

 

[Liampope]

Really good post. I'd love to be designing on a computer, computers have always been my passion. I might just change courses to Maths I only have a D. I know what you mean about the engineer title, is that because it's such a broad area?

I think it's just aspirationalism, to be honest. Who would settle for 'Gas man' when you could be a 'Central Heating Engineer', or 'Carpenter' when you could be a 'Timber Reconfiguration Engineer', or 'Bin man' when you can be a 'Refuse Recycling Logistics Engineer'? In most countries Engineer still means what it used to here in Brunel's day - a profession up there with Doctor, Accountant or Lawyer, and in some that status is protected by law. It doesn't really matter to be honest - even though you might ask a member of the British public what an engineer is, and they'd say 'Errr, someone who fixes TVs?', that doesn't change what a 'real' engineer gets up to .

Sounds like you'd really enjoy the computational modelling side of things perhaps - 3D CAD, FEA etc etc. I may have somehow obtained a copy of Solidworks at some time in the past, for evaluation purposes, and taught myself it in spare time, which unlikely did me any harm . Something to think about.

As per JonJ678's example - totally doable this career path change of yours. It may take some time, but you needn't worry too much about your age (you're barely old enough to even call yourself a mature student - come on). You do need to get some proper advice on the best way to go about it though.

Good luck.

P.S. Where's your mate working, Jon? I've just started a year secondment in Norway myself

 

[Nate Silvers]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJRJ07SN8HY&feature=related

"It's important to be sure to make arrangements to do an internship at a local engineering firm" "Get the education but be sure that you talk to somebody who will give you an opportunity to give you a little bit of design work, teach you and take you under their wing."

I guess it's better than NOT doing it. If I don't do this course I'll just spend all year trying to get another job I know it. I didn't know Accountant was up there with doctor? I just see someone on excel doing taxes, suppose the same way people think engineer is fixing TVs.

It does feel like my age could stop me, I'd be more expensive to be paid as an apprentice by law, this is what the college adviser told me. Also is part-time even worth attending? The full-time one must be the "real deal".

I just thought I'd love to design things like laptops, mice or speakers. I would LOVE to build a PC case from scratch I never even thought of that. I just hate cars never had an interest for them I couldn't name a single car. When I think of mechanical engineer I think of someone under a car with a wrench :\

 

[JonJ678]

He's working for Schlumberger, but I cant pronounce nor spell the name of the place he's off to. It's near a snooker hall, but that's not all that informative. I'll find out for you tomorrow, it'll be interesting if it's the same town.

@Nate, work experience is important. I don't have any, and that's causing problems with finding further work experience. Most people pick it up during their degree though, either summer placements or a year long one like Liampope's. I don't think it'll ruin me if I graduate without any to be honest. However, work experience without a degree, will put a rather low ceiling on where you can get to in a career. I've learnt so much on my course that I struggle to imagine working for a firm without such knowledge. It's not just having a useful piece of paper, it's actually knowing things that otherwise I wouldn't.

Seem to be getting steadily less articulate as the night goes on

 

[Nate Silvers]

I'd thought you would be able to I hear a shortage of ME. Are you a mature student too? I don't know why but by the sentences you type I imagine you to be over 30, could be the 78 in your name.

My friend works at a plaster factory and he says theirs people working there for years who are engineers from uni, I don't want to study for 6 years and end up working a job I could go get tomorrow. I don't think Iv'e seen an engineering position yet without years of experience required.

Think I'm still going to do it, just for learning sake. I just hope I enjoy it because I didn't enjoy Technology much AND Design (two separate classes) design was basically next door to the Tech and I dreaded that class. I can't even remember a single thing I did in it and I can only remember this ANNOYING kid who I got in a fight with nearly because he kept spitting paper balls through a straw at me.


Lol I'm falling to sleep nearly too.

 

[Liampope]

Oh so now you want to be a product designer - make up your mind . Even more a reason to teach yourself 3D cad! If that's the sort of path you'd like to go down you want a product design/design engineering tailored course more than 'straight' mechanical engineering.

 

[Liampope]

He's working for Schlumberger, but I cant pronounce nor spell the name of the place he's off to. It's near a snooker hall, but that's not all that informative. I'll find out for you tomorrow, it'll be interesting if it's the same town.

Hmmm I think they have a place in Stavanger - where I am - but probably have places all over the place. Snooker hall? No idea - but only been here a couple of months.

 

[Nate Silvers]

Lol I feel like I'm 16 again trying to decide a career path. You keep saying "teach yourself" and that's another point about ME. I can't practice milling at home or cutting metal. I could spend all day on software though getting better.

 

[JonJ678]

Not quite, I spent a couple of years trying to do a degree in physics, which I failed. So I'm a few years older than the average. I still consider it time well spent though, I learned a lot, just not about physics. Funnily enough I think it was incompetance with maths that ultimately got me thrown out.

I worked in part time in a shop for a while. There was a marketing graduate, two from English, one from history, and a guy who was partway through postgraduate law and struggling with funding. One guy who dropped out of engineering, and one who dropped out of medicine. Whereas I'm pretty much the only person I know who didn't get a placement year who wanted one.

I don't think jobs from engineering are ever going to be hard to come by, the course lines you up very well for management (as trying to get teams of people to do useful things is a large part of the course, as is project planning) and for finance (as the mathematical content is considerable). I don't want to work in the city, I'm one of the mad few who wants to go into research. However if I don't get the grades for that, I should still be able to amble into middle management & work my way up from there.

I had a rough start with design. I can't draw anything coherent by hand and the first year was almost all on paper. As soon as CAD started to matter more it was a different game. I still can't draw worth a damn, but design itself is a fantastic subject. All the maths you're forced to do is ultimately preperation for designing something that will work, so it's fortunate that the subjects grown on me. I hated it at school too.


edit: The theory behind milling can be done at home, but after you've spent time working out cutting speeds (or asked the lab techs), it's just a case of turning three wheels and watching an electronic ruler. My uni at least has a lab where students can turn up out of the blue and make stuff, if they have time to anyway. I'm trying to learn to solder at home, but so far I'm terrible at it. You can certainly teach yourself maths at home... are you looking at full time / part time courses? Willing to consider the a level route?

My friends working for the grid at the moment, he's due to go out sometime in September. The nutter's managed to fill the summer before and after the year abroad with more work, he's going to go far. I'll mention Stavanger in my text, but he'll be asleep now so I wont wake him. Are you in engineering too?

edit2: For that matter, does the course you're looking at now count as entrance requirements for a degree? How many years does it take?