I find the lack of G-Sync Monitors, Disturbing

PaulW · 4 Nov 2017 at 18:00

Samsung has some lovely FreeSync Ultra wide monitors about. but i see no G-Sync from them. i want to go Nvidia i dont like AMD, i work in Games ( as in 3D work) and with my next build i want a decent dual / 3 monitor setup to work comfortably on and play a few games in between.

like the look of the C34F791 34" but not the 4ms response time + its freesync. the only alternative is the G-sync S2716DG 27" 2xDell with probably an aweful TN display. ( ideal would be 3x24" monitors)

i read Samsung and Nvidia don't really like each other much and hence why they have gone AMD free sync.

Anyone think Samsung is acting all Darth Vadery and doing a dis service by not making a G-sync ultrawide versions available for rebel scum like me.

Please CES your my only hope!

Paul

w1ze1 · 4 Nov 2017 at 18:57

The new Samsung range has a G-Sync model on the cards, I looked it up a while back and I am sure someone posted the model number in the thread.

aatu · 4 Nov 2017 at 19:14

I don't know about not liking each other, but I'm guessing one factor would be Samsung wanting to keep certain margin for their products, and G-Sync's nVidia-tax doesn't sit well with that strategy. Furthermore, the signs indicate that G-Sync will be losing the standard war, so Samsung probably isn't too keen to invest much resources on the losing horse. They were quite careful of joining the race, at all. If what w1ze1 said is true, then at least they're now dipping their toe in the water.

Btw, all 3440x1440 UW monitors have 4ms+, at least on spec sheets.

I'm not sure whether the UW was the initial objective or not, but here are some similar G-Sync alternatives:
Acer Predator X34 (/X34A), £1000
ASUS ROG Swift PG348Q, £1200
Dell Alienware AW3418DW (quite new, not stocked by OcUK)
HP Omen X 35 (not stocked by OcUK)

Granted, these are slightly more expensive when compared to Samsung's £750 (which on the other hand is kind of crazy, since usually Samsung comes with an extra price premium, as well)

Rroff · 4 Nov 2017 at 19:19

aatu said:
Furthermore, the signs indicate that G-Sync will be losing the standard war, so Samsung probably isn't too keen to invest much resources on the losing horse. They were quite careful of joining the race, at all.

While nVidia holds market dominance on the GPU front G-Sync ain't going anywhere unless they added adaptive sync support.

PaulW · 4 Nov 2017 at 20:25

aatu said:
G-Sync will be losing the standard war

any evidence for this?

Nexus18 · 4 Nov 2017 at 20:31

^^

- intel will be supporting adaptive/free sync
- next gen consoles will have support for it, xbox one x does
- TVs will be supporting it naturally cause HDMI has support

And then the fact that free/adaptive sync monitors trump the amount of gsync monitors out there, someone on here, in fact, iirc, it was @aatu linked stats for the number of sync monitors and there were hundreds of freesync compared to low double digits for gsync....

The reason manufacturers don't jump on gsync is because they have to redesign the chassis of the monitor (and as is the case with tech. nowadays, the smaller/slimmer the item, the better in manufacturers eyes) in order to fit the gsync module and probably because it is closed source and expensive.

Nvidia are open to the idea to as when asked about support, there words were "never say never" so once they start noticing sales slowing down or amd gaining substantial market share, they will most likely announce support although no doubt they will keep the gsync module for the "premium" sync tech and market it as the so called superior tech.

MissChief · 4 Nov 2017 at 20:35

Someone tag me when a 34" 1440p Ultrawide with G-Sync and less than 5ms is £500 or less, otherwise I'm not interested. I'l happily stick with my 29" no sync at all Ultrawide, thanks.

Rroff · 4 Nov 2017 at 20:41

Nexus18 said:
^^

- intel will be supporting adaptive/free sync
- next gen consoles will have support for it, xbox one x does
- TVs will be supporting it naturally cause HDMI has support

And then the fact that free/adaptive sync monitors trump the amount of gsync monitors out there, someone on here, in fact, iirc, it was @aatu linked stats for the number of sync monitors and there were hundreds of freesync compared to low double digits for gsync....

The reason manufacturers don't jump on gsync is because they have to redesign the chassis of the monitor (and as is the case with tech. nowadays, the smaller/slimmer the item, the better in manufacturers eyes) in order to fit the gsync module and probably because it is closed source and expensive.

Nvidia are open to the idea to as when asked about support, there words were "never say never" so once they start noticing sales slowing down or amd gaining substantial market share, they will most likely announce support although no doubt they will keep the gsync module for the "premium" sync tech and market it as the so called superior tech.

Be good to see some actual sales volume though - G-Sync ain't going anywhere while nVidia have desktop GPU market dominance and their GPUs don't support DisplayPort/VESA adaptive sync.

Nexus18 · 4 Nov 2017 at 20:46

Rroff said:
Be good to see some actual sales volume though - G-Sync ain't going anywhere while nVidia have desktop GPU market dominance and their GPUs don't support DisplayPort/VESA adaptive sync.

If they can't get most of the manufacturers to get on board with gsync big time like they have done with asus and acer then they will have no choice unless they want to be locked out of certain areas of the monitor market.

I am pretty sure that all of their 10xx GPUs have the required hardware for adaptive sync support? But yes, anything pre-10xx doesn't have the required hardware.

Rroff · 4 Nov 2017 at 20:51

Nexus18 said:
If they can't get most of the manufacturers to get on board with gsync big time like they have done with asus and acer then they will have no choice unless they want to be locked out of certain areas of the monitor market.

But if a large number of people own nVidia GPUs many will take a long hard look at what is available G-Sync wise before anything else, even if it means making compromises, and they won't be using FreeSync (or any kind of adaptive sync) even if they buy a monitor that supports it.

Until nVidia lose market dominance (or for some reason supply of G-Sync monitors totally falls apart) G-Sync ain't going anywhere despite what people might want to think or claim.

Nexus18 · 4 Nov 2017 at 21:00

Rroff said:
But if a large number of people own nVidia GPUs many will take a long hard look at what is available G-Sync wise before anything else, even if it means making compromises, and they won't be using FreeSync (or any kind of adaptive sync) even if they buy a monitor that supports it.

Until nVidia lose market dominance (or for some reason supply of G-Sync monitors totally falls apart) G-Sync ain't going anywhere despite what people might want to think or claim.

No doubt gsync isn't going to go anywhere but that doesn't mean that nvidia can't support adaptive sync too and market it under a different name, something like "gsync lite".

When and it is only a matter of "when", not "if", nvidia do support adaptive sync, they will no doubt keep the gsync module alive for "premium" monitors and they will still sell well no doubt, because fools still believe that gsync is "superior" despite "expert" sites such as tftcentral and anandtech and non-bias/fair users claiming that there is no difference outside of connection ports, range support and price.

Whilst there are probably a lot of people buying gsync monitors (most likely people that never have and never will have any intention of going to amd, of which there is a lot), there are also plenty that won't buy a gsync monitor because:

- most of the gsync monitors are mainly only acer and asus and their CS/QC sucks
- price
- locking themselves into nvidia

hornetstinger · 4 Nov 2017 at 21:13

Whilst there are probably a lot of people buying gsync monitors (most likely people that never have and never will have any intention of going to amd), there are also plenty that won't buy a gsync monitor because:

In fact Nvidia lost a sale from me, when I was looking into a new GPU the 1060 looked pretty good, but I wanted sync tech, looking at the cost of g-sync put me off. So who does that leave? ATI with royality free sync tech.

Not prepared to pay £200 extra for basically the same, even if the Nvidia GPU's are faster

Panos · 5 Nov 2017 at 10:04

Rroff said:
Be good to see some actual sales volume though - G-Sync ain't going anywhere while nVidia have desktop GPU market dominance and their GPUs don't support DisplayPort/VESA adaptive sync.

ehm that is because of the driver my friend.

On hardware level all Pascal cards are capable to do so, because all they come with a full blown DP1.4 and HDMI 2.0b slot and all standards apply.

In addition adding salt to the wounds, all Pascal Gsync laptops are using Vesa adaptive Sync, and they do not have separate gsync module, while they come with full blown GPUs under there. (pick one open it, is a long discussion going on about this on NV reddit).

So Nvidia supports Vesa adaptive sync, on the products that they want, or they do not support it in their drivers, even if the hardware is there.

Shaddy practices? Yes. Surprised? Not, by Nvidia.

Panos · 5 Nov 2017 at 10:14

PaulW said:
Samsung has some lovely FreeSync Ultra wide monitors about. but i see no G-Sync from them. i want to go Nvidia i dont like AMD, i work in Games ( as in 3D work) and with my next build i want a decent dual / 3 monitor setup to work comfortably on and play a few games in between.

like the look of the C34F791 34" but not the 4ms response time + its freesync. the only alternative is the G-sync S2716DG 27" 2xDell with probably an aweful TN display. ( ideal would be 3x24" monitors)

i read Samsung and Nvidia don't really like each other much and hence why they have gone AMD free sync.

Anyone think Samsung is acting all Darth Vadery and doing a dis service by not making a G-sync ultrawide versions available for rebel scum like me.

Please CES your my only hope!

Paul

The only 1ms monitors that exist are TN. No IPS or VA monitor exists with anything less than 4ms.
And all suffering from either IPS glow and bleeding, or IPS/VA ghosting. There is one VA monitor that's coming out with Gsync, having light strobe to reduce ghosting, but still have to wait for Q1-2 and at what price.

As for NV vs AMD on working with games, I prefer AMD and the GPUOpen on my project.

Hence I have kept the 1800X and the FuryX for my dev machine upstairs.

lovelyhead · 5 Nov 2017 at 10:40

I really hope that upcoming TV's with Freesync forces Nvidia to implement Freesync on their cards. I hate how I have a monitor (MG279Q) which in theory could run adaptive sync with my GTX 1080 but Nvidia choose not to allow it. It would make me feel a lot better about buying the 1080.

Eurofighter · 5 Nov 2017 at 14:29

It's not a good situation when most monitors are freesync and the best cards are gsync, I think the best thing to do would be for nVidia to support Freesync. We can only hope they do or I'm gonna have to buy a G sync monitor and as soon as I do nVidia will start supporting freesync.

moogle · 5 Nov 2017 at 15:56

I'm not going to buy a G-Sync monitor due to lack of choice and the NVIDIA markup. I support an open standard unless the proprietary option was way superior. The monitor market is like crap right now. ****** choice of monitors on an old technology.

Rroff · 5 Nov 2017 at 16:20

Panos said:
ehm that is because of the driver my friend.

On hardware level all Pascal cards are capable to do so, because all they come with a full blown DP1.4 and HDMI 2.0b slot and all standards apply.

In addition adding salt to the wounds, all Pascal Gsync laptops are using Vesa adaptive Sync, and they do not have separate gsync module, while they come with full blown GPUs under there. (pick one open it, is a long discussion going on about this on NV reddit).

So Nvidia supports Vesa adaptive sync, on the products that they want, or they do not support it in their drivers, even if the hardware is there.

Shaddy practices? Yes. Surprised? Not, by Nvidia.

Missed the point of what I was saying - part of the reason G-Sync isn't going anywhere is the fact you can't do for whatever reason adaptive sync with your nVidia GPU - the reason itself in the context of what I was saying doesn't matter.

Laptops have always used a different scaler/standard - back in the day the first demonstration of "G-Sync" was using a laptop because eDP has supported variable refresh for a long time - laptops have had the hardware for it for awhile - your average desktop monitor didn't.

w1ze1 · 5 Nov 2017 at 16:24

Better range of HZ even against FS2.

mistersprinkles · 6 Nov 2017 at 04:01

PaulW said:
Samsung has some lovely FreeSync Ultra wide monitors about. but i see no G-Sync from them. i want to go Nvidia i dont like AMD, i work in Games ( as in 3D work) and with my next build i want a decent dual / 3 monitor setup to work comfortably on and play a few games in between.

like the look of the C34F791 34" but not the 4ms response time + its freesync. the only alternative is the G-sync S2716DG 27" 2xDell with probably an aweful TN display. ( ideal would be 3x24" monitors)

i read Samsung and Nvidia don't really like each other much and hence why they have gone AMD free sync.

Anyone think Samsung is acting all Darth Vadery and doing a dis service by not making a G-sync ultrawide versions available for rebel scum like me.

Please CES your my only hope!

Paul

I have the Dell in question and it's the best TN panel I've ever seen. With proper calibration it looks quite good. Still it's no VA/IPS/PLS. No back light bleed though and not a single dead pixel after 1 year.

I would imagine colour accuracy to be important to your 3D modelling work so I'd suggest a high end calibrated IPS like an ASUS Pro Art alongside a gaming monitor as the best solution. Create on the IPS game on the TN.

yes G sync choices are anaemic. I'd like to see one with quantum dot. Or OLED.