I Hate Ordering RAM - A Rant

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Before you read any further, know a few things

1 - Yes, I know this is a rant
2 - Yes, I am fully aware how RAM is marketed
3 - Yes, I know that faster RAM has very little effect on the overall performance of a PC

But here goes any way.

It's that time again, I need to buy some RAM and yet again I am frustrated that it doesn't perform as advertised.

a) Inaccurate descriptions. It's not 1600MHz RAM, it 1333MHz RAM. That's what it will say on the chips if you remove those ridiculous heatsinks. It may well run at 1600MHz if you overclock it, but equally it may not. You don't see AMD advertising the FX-6300 CPU as 4.0GHz even though many are capable of running at that. It should be sold as 1333MHz RAM, with a description that many find that it can be overclocked.

b) Lack of information. Okay so it isn't working as advertised, let's go to the manufacturer's website to find out how the advertised performance can be acheived - nothing. Okay what information is there. Well there is a lot of guff about how fantastic the ridiculous heatsinks are. It might tell you the dimensions, the weight and even the voltage if you are lucky. What you should set the parameters to - nope. How about what is in the SPD, that would be quite useful, nope.

c) Motherboard information. Okay they will tell me what RAM is validated - sort of. The list is usually a few years old and often contains weird configurations of RAM, the makes of which are mostly dimmly familiar but certainly not what you find in the UK. Not saying that they aren't available in other parts of the world but not much help here in the UK. And what is it telling you anyway - that the RAM that OCUK sells won't work in the board - not at all, just that they haven't tried. Once again it is up to the consumer to experiment.

d) Sloped shoulders. Okay my RAM doesn't work as advertised - I'll contact the manufacturer. If I am really lucky they will bother to reply, but if they do they will blame every other component in your system. Ring the retailler then - the informed ones will simply tell you that it isn't really 1600MHz despite the advertising and labelling and the best they can offer is to return it and try something else.

Okay, I have actually fitted some RAM on the motherboard manufacturer's validated list. Doesn't work as specified - so contact them - no help other than it certainly isn't their problem, must be the RAM, the PSU, the Case, the colour of your wallpaper - whatever, as long as it is not them.

e) Advertising gone mad. I realise that there is a drive by manufacturers to make their RAM sound better than anyone elses. That's why we have end up with so many ridiculous, unnecessary, science fiction inspired heatsinks.

But wait, they don't fit under CPU coolers any more, so what do they do. They introduce and market new products - low profile RAM. Wake up guys it is not a new idea. This is what RAM used to be like before you started adding the stupid heatsinks.

As I said, I am aware that in many cases RAM can be coaxed to run at the advertised settings, sometimes quite easily, sometime with a lot of care and tweaking. That is fine, but in my book, that falls under enthusiast overclocking. The fact that a knowledgable enthusiats can tweak his system and make it behave as advertised doesn't mean that it is okay to advertise that as standard. Many people won't have the ability or the inclination to get it to do what is printed on the can. It should be advertised as 1333MHz RAM plain and simple, unless the memory chips really are something different.

Rampant advertising has left the Memory Business looking quite dishonest and decietful.

Personally, I have never manged to get RAM to perform as advertised despite some knowledge and effort spent with tweaking. I have always had to drop back to 1333 and once my anger has worn off I am happy especially as I know that had I got it to run at 1600MHz it would have made very little real world difference.

Cheers,

Nigel
 
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I'm not sure what you're talking about tbh. I've always managed to run my RAM at the stated speed.

If the RAM has XMP profiles just set it to that and it will work. If it doesn't then you just need to set the frequency and make sure the voltage is high enough. Sometimes RAM needs more voltage to be stable.

(damn auto correct)
 
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If you can't get RAM to run at it's rated speed and voltage you should send it back. Simple as that. If you buy with Overclockers you can return it within 14 days no questions asked.

Some of your other points such as low profile are not strictly true because low profile RAM is generally shorter than standard profile RAM.
 
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Some of your other points such as low profile are not strictly true because low profile RAM is generally shorter than standard profile RAM.

That's very low profile, like the Samsung Green or Crucial Ballistix.

What about this

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MY-363-CS&groupid=701&catid=8&subcat=1517

That's not Low Profile. That's what RAM used to be like, possibly a tad taller than what RAM used to be like.

The marketing guys have just decided that calling it Low Profile would be a good selling point.

If the RAM has XMP profiles just set it to that and it will work. If it doesn't then you just need to set the frequency and make sure the voltage is high enough. Sometimes RAM needs more voltage to be stable.

Just sent some Crucial Ballistix Sport VLP back. Advertsied and labelled as 1600MHz, 9,9,9,24 @ 1.35V - it supposed to use low voltage RAM.

Have to admit that it had a nice populated SPD with plenty of JEDEC and XMP entries.

Motherboard automatically picked up the advertised setting but would not boot at all.

The ASUS motherboard has a facility where it will try different settings until it finds one that it can boot with. Came up with

1333MHz 9,9,9,24 @ 1.60V.

That is a big difference to advertised. Any manual tweaking to try and improve on that and the system wouldn't boot.

Cheers,

Nigel
 
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i totally agree with the OP

descriptions & tech specs are misleading. Also what is the deal with those stupid heat spreaders? When did that ever become necessary apart from in the extreme top 1% over clocker systems?
 
Soldato
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Samsung Green, brilliant RAM!

Ran mine at 2133mhz 9-9-9-21 1T @ 1.65v

Never had a single issue like OP describes though. Usually had 1600mhz RAM in my machines. Put RAM in, finish PC, boot. Set RAM to 1600mhz and correct voltage. Done.
 
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I have had problems when setting my corsair dominator GT ram rated at 2133 and I can only get it to 1866 stable @ 1.65v and its on a 1366 i7 970 setup so I do understand where he is coming from
 
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a) Inaccurate descriptions. It's not 1600MHz RAM, it 1333MHz RAM. That's what it will say on the chips if you remove those ridiculous heatsinks. It may well run at 1600MHz if you overclock it, but equally it may not. You don't see AMD advertising the FX-6300 CPU as 4.0GHz even though many are capable of running at that. It should be sold as 1333MHz RAM, with a description that many find that it can be overclocked.

But you do. CPU's are often 'bin dumped' depending on what speed they run at. So the better performing ones off the production line, get sold as say 3.2GHz, while the poorer ones get sold as 3.0GHz.

In the case of RAM, I would assume that the 1333MHz parts, have been shown to work at 1333MHz at the production factory, but then they are 'modded' by an OEM with an additional heatsink and then re-tested to show that they can now work at 1600MHz.

b) Lack of information. Okay so it isn't working as advertised, let's go to the manufacturer's website to find out how the advertised performance can be acheived - nothing. Okay what information is there. Well there is a lot of guff about how fantastic the ridiculous heatsinks are. It might tell you the dimensions, the weight and even the voltage if you are lucky. What you should set the parameters to - nope. How about what is in the SPD, that would be quite useful, nope.

If it doesn't work, out of the box, then send it back. You shouldn't need to 'tweak' anything, unless you're trying to run it at custom settings. In which case, you should only buy RAM that meets your (custom) needs and not expect all manufacturers to cater to this.

c) Motherboard information. Okay they will tell me what RAM is validated - sort of. The list is usually a few years old and often contains weird configurations of RAM, the makes of which are mostly dimmly familiar but certainly not what you find in the UK. Not saying that they aren't available in other parts of the world but not much help here in the UK. And what is it telling you anyway - that the RAM that OCUK sells won't work in the board - not at all, just that they haven't tried. Once again it is up to the consumer to experiment.

I can't say I've ever had problems pairing RAM with a motherboard. But again, if it doesn't work, send it back. I've never had any problems with this. Most (decent) sites understand the issue.

d) Sloped shoulders. Okay my RAM doesn't work as advertised - I'll contact the manufacturer. If I am really lucky they will bother to reply, but if they do they will blame every other component in your system. Ring the retailler then - the informed ones will simply tell you that it isn't really 1600MHz despite the advertising and labelling and the best they can offer is to return it and try something else.

Okay, I have actually fitted some RAM on the motherboard manufacturer's validated list. Doesn't work as specified - so contact them - no help other than it certainly isn't their problem, must be the RAM, the PSU, the Case, the colour of your wallpaper - whatever, as long as it is not them.

All I can say is that the quality of 'support' from any retailer varies. This isn't specific to RAM and you just have to find one which offers decent support.

If the RAM is on their validated list, then it (likely) isn't the motherboard's fault. Welcome to PC building! System isn't working - is it the RAM, the CPU, the mobo, the PSU, the graphics, the wallpaper? Unless you can swap things out, then it's very hard to work out what is at fault. In which case, there's not much point hoping for help from a manufacturer of any of the possible causes.

If you want to be able to pass 'diagnosis' off onto someone else - either take it to a 'repair shop', or only buy pre-built systems.

e) Advertising gone mad. I realise that there is a drive by manufacturers to make their RAM sound better than anyone elses. That's why we have end up with so many ridiculous, unnecessary, science fiction inspired heatsinks.

But wait, they don't fit under CPU coolers any more, so what do they do. They introduce and market new products - low profile RAM. Wake up guys it is not a new idea. This is what RAM used to be like before you started adding the stupid heatsinks.

Heatsinks are just a way for manufacturers to 'guarantee' that the RAM will run faster than it otherwise would.

If you want RAM without a heatsink, then just buy 'low-profile', or read reviews.

Again this isn't specific to RAM. Graphics cards have been doing this for years. Want the fastest card? It's probably got a huge cooler on it, to make it run 10% faster than the 'stock' version.

As I said, I am aware that in many cases RAM can be coaxed to run at the advertised settings, sometimes quite easily, sometime with a lot of care and tweaking. That is fine, but in my book, that falls under enthusiast overclocking. The fact that a knowledgable enthusiats can tweak his system and make it behave as advertised doesn't mean that it is okay to advertise that as standard. Many people won't have the ability or the inclination to get it to do what is printed on the can. It should be advertised as 1333MHz RAM plain and simple, unless the memory chips really are something different.

Rampant advertising has left the Memory Business looking quite dishonest and decietful.

Personally, I have never manged to get RAM to perform as advertised despite some knowledge and effort spent with tweaking. I have always had to drop back to 1333 and once my anger has worn off I am happy especially as I know that had I got it to run at 1600MHz it would have made very little real world difference.

Cheers,

Nigel

I have to admit that it's been a while since I bought some RAM, but you shouldn't need to 'tweak' it for it to work in your system.

Again I'm years out of the loop, but doesn't RAM usually match it's speed to the mobo or CPU bus (in some/most systems)? So even if you buy 1600MHz RAM, it'll only operate at that if your system is capable of doing that? You may need to tweak your system (overclock mobo/cpu) to achieve it, but that's not the RAM's fault.

Maybe I'm not understanding the problem, having not messed around with this sort of thing for years - but it just seems like it's one of the 'joys' of PC building and not really a fault of the RAM. But I could be wrong.
 
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3 - Yes, I know that faster RAM has very little effect on the overall performance of a PC

Depends what you're doing with the computer. The CPU is much, much faster than the ram. So it's relatively easy to have ram bandwidth as the bottleneck, this is why X58 got triple channel ram and X79 has quad channel.

If you're using the computer to do hard things, like maths, you're probably memory bandwidth limited. Lowering the timings and increasing the frequency will greatly increase performance while overclocking the CPU does relatively little.

"Overall performance" depends on workload. The game is spotting the bottleneck and improving on it. If you don't benefit from fast ram, buy slow ram. It's cheaper after all.

It's very easy to be GPU limited when playing games. It's very easy to be memory limited when doing maths. Processor limited is rarer, it'll occur when doing lots of maths to small amounts of (roughly cache sized) data. Limited by network bandwidth is common, I hit that every time I scp a file to another computer.


edit: Oh - it's also hard to make ram. I'm not especially interested in the relative merits of dynamic transistor/capacitor ram vs static 6/4 transistor ram, but after reading through a description of how ram works I'm quite impressed that it works at all. I've had more memory fail than any other component (possibly excluding hard drives), but as I've invariably bought lifetime warranty ram, that's not my problem.
 
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It took me a monster post to finally get to this point, which is probably the most likely the cause of the OP's problem.

I'm not totally green.

MoBo is Asus M5A97 rated upto 2133
CPU is AMD FX-6300 rated upto 1866
RAM was Crucial Ballistix Sport 1600 1.35V VLP

RAM has well populated SPD with advertised setting in JEDEC and XMP

Despite all this it would not boot at anything better than 1333 1.6V

I wasn't expecting to OC, just run at the advertised speed.

It would have been great to have some of you guys in the room because it sounds like the system would have instantly burst into life.

I don't see what is so wrong with expecting something to work as advertised.

I did ask Asus and got a curt response that this memory isn't in the VLP - true but virtually nothing that is currently sold by UK retailers is in the VLP and that which is is pretty old stuff.

Still no response from Crucial, but moot as I have returned it.

Cheers,

Nigel
 
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I'm not totally green.

MoBo is Asus M5A97 rated upto 2133
CPU is AMD FX-6300 rated upto 1866
RAM was Crucial Ballistix Sport 1600 1.35V VLP

RAM has well populated SPD with advertised setting in JEDEC and XMP

Despite all this it would not boot at anything better than 1333 1.6V

I wasn't expecting to OC, just run at the advertised speed.

It would have been great to have some of you guys in the room because it sounds like the system would have instantly burst into life.

I don't see what is so wrong with expecting something to work as advertised.

I did ask Asus and got a curt response that this memory isn't in the VLP - true but virtually nothing that is currently sold by UK retailers is in the VLP and that which is is pretty old stuff.

Still no response from Crucial, but moot as I have returned it.

Cheers,

Nigel

you put 1.6v through a 1.35v ram kit?

You trying to kill them or?
 
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you put 1.6v through a 1.35v ram kit?

You trying to kill them or?

No I didn't - the MoBo decided that was the safe setting to boot.

Procedure

CPU supports 1600 - CHECK
MoBo support 1600 - CHECK
RAM - 1600 9,9,9,27 1,35V - CHECK
RAM SPD populated with advertised settings in JEDEC and XMP - CHECK
MoBo supports XMP if required - CHECK

Boot - nothing.

Asus MoBo has a MemOK button that it states will automatically determine stable setting for RAM and facilitate booting.

Press that button, sytem boots.

In BIOS find that Asus MoBo has set it to 1333 9,9,9,7 1.6V.

Set memory profile to manual and select 1600, leaving all parameters at Auto - won't boot.

Use MemOK button, back into BIOS and select RAM overclock which allows you to select profile in SPD. Select the JEDEC one that matches advertsised - won't boot.

Repeat above and select the XMP profile that matches advertised - won't boot.


Contact Asus and get a stock "it's not in the QVL" which there is no denying. However, you will struggle to find any of the RAM that UK Stores like OCUK currently sell.

Out of desperation, I have bought some Corsair Vengeance. It's not memory I would have chosen as it is quite old and heatsinks will prevent using a better heatsink in the furture - but it is in the QVL.

It is waiting at home for me. I work away from home during the week so it is quite frustrating because when something doesn't work or have forgotten a part I have to wait a full week before I can try to resolve it. Get back late tonight so will give it a go tomorrow.

Will post here to let you know how I get on.

Cheers,

Nigel


Just to be clear about why I posted. I do understand how the technology works. I understand that overclocks aren't guaranteed - for example if I purchased Samsung Green, I would expect to get 1600 11-11-11-28 because that is what is advertised. I am aware that many have posted better results and because of this I would be confident of doing better. But if I didn't I would be here complaining. The point is I expect it to do what it says on the label (assuming CPU and MoBo are compatible) without any fuss. I don't expect to have to tweak to get this.

It might well be that RAM is faulty, but I tried each stick individually so they would both have to be faulty. Also I have experienced similar when I built my PC (this new upgrade is for my son). I would not be surprised that if someone else were to try those sticks in a different system they would burst into life.
 
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