I just don't understand powergames...

would that not just be playing powergames with your own mind, to stop you playing powergames with other people?

a big thing i learnt from a young age was to be myself, if that meant being not liked by certain people then so be it. do you really want to be a part of someones life who you need to win a game with to make them want to be around you?
while on one hand you could be a master manipulator, the other could be that she is easily manipulated, so could easily go off to someone else who manipulates her.
 
cleanbluesky said:
I only analyse where I see a problem or a need for improvement.

EDIT: And in case anyone wonders why I am being so open about this, its because I am starting to realise that hiding these things is no defence - but being open with yourself and others holds hope. I have tried to defend some things for too long.

i see an issue with the first paragraph: x can be a problem and y can be improved upon, but, does x need to be solved and does y need to be improved. can x or y be appreciated for what x and y is?

is there anything that in your mind you see as perfection, anything that needs no improvement?

your edit: this is a good thing, you have had me post in your thread without thinking 'ffs why is he asking these bloody questions again', which could be a good thing and equally it could be a bad thing :D
 
cleanbluesky said:
Interesting, that's exactly the phrase my friend used - can you explain it further?

I believe what he means by that would be on the lines of...

'I'm sorry I cannot see you tonight as I am going out' :p

or
for an example of my own situation..
while you both sit on the sofa together be in trance with the tv and give them little attention and do not be touchy feeling... do not go as far as for example.. not holding their hand/rejecting them... BUT give minimum effort... ;)

...I find after 20 minutes the other person always trying to jump on you then :p :D
 
cleanbluesky said:
My present understanding:
One person wants the other more than the other wants them, hence that person has control.
My question is, how can the person who desires them more regain control?

Convert her to Islam and then marrying her. That way you can ninja her up and make her walk behind you like a dog. That's if your kind enough to give her permission to leave the house after the beating you gave her as a dutiful husband.
 
cleanbluesky said:
My present understanding:
One person wants the other more than the other wants them, hence that person has control.
My question is, how can the person who desires them more regain control?

OK, firstly you have to understand why one person desires another.

This is a very complicated subject, and by no means a closed book, despite I'm sure a lot of research. In no particular order, attractive traits in a male, for female tend to be:-

Perceived social status
Perceived physical attractiveness
Personality traits - specifically confidence and leadership (which tend to be traits of an "alpha male") but also a sense of humour, sensitivity and kindness. Whilst the latter few traits don't necessarily go hand-in-hand with the former, and in some cases can be mutually exclusive, but that's not an absolute.

I mentioned "perceived" social status and "perceived" physical attractiveness, because these things are not set in stone and are not absolute, only relative. You can make yourself much more attractive simply by surrounding yourself with lots of other cool people. Social proof is a very very powerful tool, and a friend of mine uses it to massive effect whenever he is out and about - an example might be if you know a lot of the bar staff or regulars in a pub or bar, and they're all very friendly with you, saying "hi", shaking hands etc... and a girl you're with notices this. It puts across the impression that you are a popular, social guy.

Generally, if you like somebody, more than they like you then you should probably avoid conveying this information. You can do this by portraying yourself as a non-needy, sociable, attractive guy. Going out in a large group of friends to a club, where you ideally introduce this other person into your various social circles is powerful...

There's also one more aspect that has been touched upon earlier in this thread, and that is attainability. Does she think that she can have you and your undivided attention, whenever she wishes? At the end of the day, that is when they really have power over you. I've been in this situation with women before, and it's a subconscious thing where i've just been compelled to be almost submissive about being convenient and fitting into their plans. In other words, your life cannot revolve around them, and the only way to get past this is to live an active social life, with options all around you. This also ties in with what I said earlier - by simply having lots of female friends, you become less needy. You become less fixated on a single person, and this puts you in a stronger position.

I hope I haven't gone on for too long... I've been working with some good friends on various projects in this kind of area for nearly a year now...
 
daz said:
I hope I haven't gone on for too long... I've been working with some good friends on various projects in this kind of area for nearly a year now...

Style get you started? I just finished reading that book, I may be starting on a similar path to you...
 
cleanbluesky said:
Style get you started? I just finished reading that book, I may be starting on a similar path to you...

Yeah I guess. A good friend of mine broke up with his girlfriend just over a year ago, got involved a few things... and ended up starting "The School of Seduction", which was featured in FHM and various other publications. I've been helping them with their web stuff since last summer... It's been a very fun time, and I would personally say that I'm a different person today because of it.

The book "The Game" is really just a novel though. It doesn't really help you that much, apart from an illustration that you can achieve a lot of things with the right mental attitude. At the end of the day, you can read all the books you want but they're not going to change your life, they can only ever give you pointers... you have to be the one to put things into action.

One book that I read just before the game, was "Yes Man", by Danny Wallace. It's a sort of parody of "The Dice Man", which is in itself a good read. But basically the Yes Man is the story of a guy that got into the habit of saying "no". He was finding it far too easy to say "No" to a night out with his friends, and "no" in general to lots of opportunities around him. He ended up betting with his friend, that he would say "yes" for 6 months, and his whole life changed because of it. It's a very positive book to read, it will make you laugh and give you a really cool perspective on things too. :)

Good luck, i hope it helps. If you want you can expand a little on what's brought this thread about. :o
 
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Weren't those people from school of seduction on some speed dating show where they failed to get any numbers?
I think I remember those guys lol. They were quite unnatural and very transparent.
 
crystaline said:
Weren't those people from school of seduction on some speed dating show where they failed to get any numbers?
I think I remember those guys lol. They were quite unnatural and very transparent.

I think they were from the "London School of Seduction", which is different... in any case, I agree. There are a lot of guys out there that read these books, and just like the guy mentioned in "The Game" become boring clones, attempting to be alpha males all the time etc... it's quite sad in that respect.
 
daz said:
I think they were from the "London School of Seduction", which is different... in any case, I agree. There are a lot of guys out there that read these books, and just like the guy mentioned in "The Game" become boring clones, attempting to be alpha males all the time etc... it's quite sad in that respect.

It is sad in the objectification of women eg. the chase, hunt etc.

I don't know why some guys feel that some book will give them some master secret or something. How about just be respectful and non manipulative :confused:
Any tricks tend to be obvious to women with any intelligence anyway. Although I suppose those aren't the sort of women these people are after..
 
cleanbluesky said:
Probably all in my head. I think there should be no need for powergames, ever.

There isn't.

If powergames start to happen, I distance myself from that person. In effect, my noticing this 'game' start to develop, puts me off that person.

Because if they're playing them, they're a **** anyway.
 
Mohinder said:
If powergames start to happen, I distance myself from that person.

That means that you're playing along. :p

crystaline said:
It is sad in the objectification of women eg. the chase, hunt etc.

I don't know why some guys feel that some book will give them some master secret or something. How about just be respectful and non manipulative :confused:
Any tricks tend to be obvious to women with any intelligence anyway. Although I suppose those aren't the sort of women these people are after..

True. If you want a decent girl, you're not going to get her by using cheap tricks. Cheap tricks = cheap girls...

At the end of the day I'm not an expert though, I'm just another guy on a discussion forum putting across my tuppence!
 
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crystaline said:
It is sad in the objectification of women eg. the chase, hunt etc.

The 'game' is a better idea, although men are being ignorant if they think that women are not players...

I don't know why some guys feel that some book will give them some master secret or something. How about just be respectful and non manipulative :confused:
Any tricks tend to be obvious to women with any intelligence anyway. Although I suppose those aren't the sort of women these people are after..

Neil Strauss comes across of a perfect example of how it can work - the story is about how he got into the game, what it did for him, what he liked and what he didn't like...

I remember someone describing him as the perfect example of it if only because he got into seduction community for the right reasons, and how he ended up learning general social skills and confidence from it.

I thought it was a fantastic and honest book, reminds me of some of the better therapy books in that it explores the vulnerabilities of the author/protagonist and how that relates to the story.
 
cleanbluesky said:
My present understanding:
One person wants the other more than the other wants them, hence that person has control.
My question is, how can the person who desires them more regain control?

By telling the manipulative **** to go an **** themselves....and don't speak to the silly tart again. Dont play along with it, its largely irritating and uneccessary and the person in just using you.
 
crystaline said:
I don't know why some guys feel that some book will give them some master secret or something. How about just be respectful and non manipulative :confused:
Any tricks tend to be obvious to women with any intelligence anyway. Although I suppose those aren't the sort of women these people are after..
99.99% of women will simply take advantage of a guy that is respectful and non-manipulative. Equally, I am 100% sure in my own mind (note: I am not attempting to put this across as fact) that every single woman on this planet is manipulative.

They're just a lot better at it than most guys.
 
Gilly said:
99.99% of women will simply take advantage of a guy that is respectful and non-manipulative. Equally, I am 100% sure in my own mind (note: I am not attempting to put this across as fact) that every single woman on this planet is manipulative.

They're just a lot better at it than most guys.

i think that its the other way myself, men are more susceptible to womanly ways. a pretty woman or a nice smile and the right words and most men will do anything for a woman.
 
Morba said:
i think that its the other way myself, men are more susceptible to womanly ways. a pretty woman or a nice smile and the right words and most men will do anything for a woman.

I thought that was what Gilly was saying. That women are better at manipulating men than vice versa, obviously you get exceptions with either sex but he might be right overall whether the woman means to be manipulative or not. :)
 
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