I need to learn how to drive properly, I think

pcoltrane said:
Most track days won't allow single seaters out with the closed wheel cars although there may be some exceptions.

There are however plenty of open wheel test days at the various circuits around the country. For most of them you'll need to have passed an ARDS test/have a race license, but the advantage is the higher quality track time. Ie, Only on track with other racing drivers, no restrictions on overtaking, etc.

When I took my car to somewhere like Castle Combe, it was so quiet that it was open pit lane all day and I shared the circuit with only a couple of other cars.

Other circuits like Silverstone can be busier, especially if there is a big race meeting the following weekend. I tested there before the BTCC weekend, which meant loads of Formula Renaults on track along with a big assortement of other cars. Despite at times having a couple of F.Renaults passing me through Copse at the same time as I was passing a pair of Formula Fords I didn't have an issue with any driver all day and got plenty of good quality laps in.
Click to expand...

Fairy muff, thought that might be the case.

I'll get myself booked in for my ARDS when it gets a bit warmer :D

I'm not convinced that going for something with that much power and Aero is the way to go initially. Unlike the experience days, even in a FFord1600 you'll be running noticably faster (130mph+) on circuits with far less run off. The cars are also trickier to drive when you set them up to go quickly rather than be forgiving.
Click to expand...
I know it doesn't make the most sense, I just know I'll get acclimated to a 1600 too quickly.

Even if it takes me a while to get used to the 2000 - I know I will enjoy it more... the 1600s aren't far off the power/weight I would like - I have a feeling the 2000s will be spot on.

It's more about my enjoyment than climbing the ranks to begin with.

It'll likely be set up a bit soft for a while though :)

I did a Palmersport day years ago which included the Palmer Audi. Driving the car I have now feels faster, particularly in the quick corners.
It takes a while to build up to getting the most out of a car with lots of Aero too. Drivers who have had a chance to really get to grips with and reach the limits of a slighly slower car tend to fare much better when they step up to a quicker car as they aren't scared of the limits. The cars with lots of Aero can break away pretty quickly, which is daunting for a less experienced driver.
Click to expand...
I really liked the extra power of the Palmer Jags compared to the FF1600s...

It does make the most sense to start in a 1600... I just want that extra kick, even if it takes longer to learn - I feel I can still get where I want to be when I combine my own playing with tuition... If I'm wrong and prefer the competition over the enjoyment of the extra power, I can always take a step back.

If I went balls out straight away, I know I'd bottle it - I don't drive like that... I start off slow(ish) and build up as I get to know the car and track.

I pretty much jumped straight in a 2-stroke gearbox from 4-strokes! It was only after I picked up my gearbox kart that I did any club 100. I had one session in a TKM100 somewhere on Tenerife or Gran Canaria... it was after that when I picked up a gearbox kart :)

Sure, I hadn't got the most out of it by the time I got rid of it, but I sure had a heck of a lot of fun with it :D

If you're after slidey fun maybe a Formula Ford 1600 might be the best compromise between the two? The 1600s slide a lot with no aero and treaded tyres. With a bit of experience under your belt in one, you'll then be ready to get the most out of a quicker car.
Click to expand...
I want slidey and sticky to be separate... Caterfields are the ultimate in slidey fun IMO... so that's why I want something with a bit of aero in a single seater.
 
I've been on the VXR track days a couple of times and picked up a lot with one of the instructors.

One of the first days i went to was really really quiet, and as a result we came back in, found there was nobody waiting so went back out. Had about 12 /15 continuous laps with the same instructor and got loads of advice.

I may not be an amazing track driver, but the tuition did really help with understanding breaking points, lines, feeling the weight balance shift in the car, and how this affects grip.

Enough so that when I was driving to a corner, i felt relaxed, and knew what to do. This was my recorded lap that day:

trackday.jpg


Might be a good idea to see if you can get yourself on the VXR track days this year.

http://buyvxrpowerevents.co.uk/
 
crinkleshoes said:
Been there, done that... not interested any more... I will never choose to own another FWD car, even on the road... let alone for the track! I'd rather have a boat of an e36 328 than a brand new renaultsport megane or similar.

They are just not comparable - I will be getting tuition and be joining in on events in a single seater ;)

The only decision is which to get first... caterfield or single seater - I will own both.

Can get better tuition in a Caterfield of course as you can have the instructor with you, but I think I might prefer a single seater first and would likely get a data logger - will see what's available when I have the cash saved up.
Click to expand...

Got you confused with OP, sorry!
 
crinkleshoes said:
Fairy muff, thought that might be the case.

I'll get myself booked in for my ARDS when it gets a bit warmer :D

I know it doesn't make the most sense, I just know I'll get acclimated to a 1600 too quickly.

Even if it takes me a while to get used to the 2000 - I know I will enjoy it more... the 1600s aren't far off the power/weight I would like - I have a feeling the 2000s will be spot on.
Click to expand...

Thats the reason I went for a 2000 myself. It's a proper single seater with slicks and wings and they are quick enough that to get the most out of the car will take some time. They're a good balance between being relatively fast, while still being a forgiving enough car for someone new to racing.

I'm sure you'd cope just fine starting off in a quicker car, but you may miss out on some of the enjoyment of building up in a less powerful car first.

It's a bit like riding a motorbike - those who start off with little 125 race replicas tend to have no fear of getting a knee down when they jump on a bigger bike, where the guys who get straight on a big bike, often take a lot longer to build up the confidence.

Formula Vee's like the one you linked above are probably the cheapest route into single seaters. They actually use the engine, gearbox, rear supension and front suspension straight from a VW Beetle. In theory that's a little compromised compared to the setup on other single seaters like a Formula Ford, but its a race series that's been going since the 1960s so it must work!
They have about 85bhp and laptimes are a little slower than a FF1600, but the racing is good and they have grids of 30+ cars which impressive in these difficult financial times. As such if you buy a reasonable car, with it being a popular series it would seem there was a decent market to sell it on again later.
http://www.750mc.co.uk/F-formula-vee.php
I reckon they'd be fantastic fun to race, but perhaps a bit slower than what you are after? If you intended to get straight into racing then they could be a good choice.

Another option of course is once you get your ARDS is to rent out someone elses car for a test day. You'll certainly have no trouble doing that in the F-Vees, FFord1600s and probably the 2000s even with no real experience.
I reckon once you've driven one of them unrestricted, you'll have a much better idea of what sort of car you want to buy.

It's very hard to look at the specs of a single seater on paper and judge what it'll be like to drive, particularly as the experience cars you can reference them against tend to have their performance specifications so exaggerated.
 
That'll be a good way to decide then - get my ARDS done and try to rent a real 1600 and 2000 :)

Funny you say that about bikes... I went straight for my DAS - supposed to be up to 5 days - but I got a good instructor who would only give me what I needed.

1.5 days training and I went in for my test - passed first time with only 2 minors :)

Within 2-3 months I went from happy doing 55mph with my puffy jacket to leathers, sitting upright one-handed at 140mph. In the same time progressing from a de-restricted RS125 (lasted a week on that, I stupidly bought it before doing my test and hated it after riding a "real" bike... it seemed like the sensible option to start off with something less powerful), to a CBR600F, to a Kwak ZZR1100 and finally to a Triumph Daytona 959. I got rid of the bikes sharpish though and won't be riding on the road again in a hurry, that complacency comes too easily and some nutter could so easily have killed me :( Let alone losing my license...

When I got rid of them... I bought the XKR :) I still miss that car, even if it was a soft cruiser... it was a really nice place to be and it felt a bit special just getting in it every day. Plus it's interesting how people perceive you differently on the road... in the Jag you got people moving out of your way on the motorway, people stopping at junctions to let you go when they didn't have to... almost like "after you, sir". I part-exed that for a Scoob and became the brunt of endless road-rage, people throwing things at me and just generally being treated like a **** even though my (usually courteous) driving standard hadn't changed at all :s

You're right - I reckon something like that F Vee will be underpowered for my tastes - it's just I have that amount of cash sitting in my account so could enjoy this summer with a bit of track time while I save up for something bigger. Tempting... I just have too small a drive really at the minute for the trailer - I'll be moving in september and storage space is at the top of the must have list. I could maybe squeeze it on - I'd be screwed if the trailer didn't quite fit though :( Think I have to wait. I could always pay for storage... I just think I need to be patient for once in my life and enjoy a few more experience days.

I'll be seeing you at an event or two :) What's it like getting to the pit lane on test days when you're not a participant/crew?
 
Last edited:
crinkleshoes said:
Tempting... I just have too small a drive really at the minute for the trailer - I'll be moving in september and storage space is at the top of the must have list. I could maybe squeeze it on - I'd be screwed if the trailer didn't quite fit though :( Think I have to wait. I could always pay for storage... I just think I need to be patient for once in my life and enjoy a few more experience days.
Click to expand...

You can get trailers that fit inside a typical single garage (mine does even with the car on it). I definitely wouldn't rush into buying a car, you really do want to avoid an expensive mistake by getting the wrong one.
Many of the best cars never actually get advertised. If you visit a few race meetings and chat to a few people you'll get a much clearer picture of the direction to take and will hear about various cars for sale.

Since you are keen to get a car and start racing relatively soon, rather than spending the £ on experience days, getting the ARDS and some fireproof race kit and renting a car to test could be more beneficial (and more fun)?

It'll be in the ball park of about £600 for the day to test a FF1600 (you may have circuit fees on top + you'll be responsible for any damage however). Therefore for similar money to a Palmer day, you'd get a whole day testing the same car which will give you a chance to build up speed and get a proper feel for it.


crinkleshoes said:
I'll be seeing you at an event or two :) What's it like getting to the pit lane on test days when you're not a participant/crew?
Click to expand...

Most club meetings are very open. Usually anyone can access the paddock/garages etc. The same applies to test days.
People are generally friendly too - most people are more than happy to chat about their car all day long!
 
pcoltrane said:
You can get trailers that fit inside a typical single garage (mine does even with the car on it). I definitely wouldn't rush into buying a car, you really do want to avoid an expensive mistake by getting the wrong one.
Many of the best cars never actually get advertised. If you visit a few race meetings and chat to a few people you'll get a much clearer picture of the direction to take and will hear about various cars for sale.
Click to expand...

Good to know, so I would be able to fit it here... bad to tempt me :D

Sounds like a plan, I'll hold off until I can get a clearer picture of what I'm after.

Since you are keen to get a car and start racing relatively soon, rather than spending the £ on experience days, getting the ARDS and some fireproof race kit and renting a car to test could be more beneficial (and more fun)?
Click to expand...

I'll probably do both - but not as many experience days as I was planning. I'm already due to go back to this Silverstone SS in May with some guys from old motorclub + 2 from work. Then I'm definitely up for a second Palmersport day - maybe not much more than that... focus on ARDS and a test day for 1600 and 2000.

It'll be in the ball park of about £600 for the day to test a FF1600 (you may have circuit fees on top + you'll be responsible for any damage however). Therefore for similar money to a Palmer day, you'd get a whole day testing the same car which will give you a chance to build up speed and get a proper feel for it.
Click to expand...

Sounds good :)

Most club meetings are very open. Usually anyone can access the paddock/garages etc. The same applies to test days.
People are generally friendly too - most people are more than happy to chat about their car all day long!
Click to expand...

Great, I'll see you soon ;)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom