I think it's time I refreshed my NAD C325Bee, NAD D 3020?

[mrk]

I've had a look at Naim/Arcam and the only suitable deals below £1k were for units like the Solo which don't interest me really, the Naim Stream units are +£1K. Unless there are older models I've missed?

I looked at the Onkyo units in the past which I like quite a lot but again it's not the kind of unit I'm after all things considered. I have a Xonar STX soundcard so have a capable source. I just want a quality discreet amp to drive my headphones and speakers (The Xonar has a headphone amp yeah but I prefer NAD's headphone amp sound, it's warmer) with bluetooth so I can stream music with the added digital connection benefits for use with my other devices and also in the near future. The D 3020 looked like it ticked those boxes.

In short, 16/44 audio is all you ever need as an "audiophile" and USB 1 or 2, even with overheads, is plentiful. With this amp, Nad have focussed on getting the required components right rather than filling it with unnecessary ******** in the name of marketing.

Yup.

It's obvious I like NAD, what they do, they do very well without going overboard with marketing or specs that aren't needed for that price/class point of device.

Having had the transformer in mine replaced in the past under warranty, I felt like I was being dealt with by a single person who kept me in the loop, the technician called me from his workshop rather than my amp being put in a queue and me being given a reference number to check back with. The feeling of 1to1 with their support was welcoming. I'm sure other companies are similar but first impressions and all that...

 

[mrk]

FYI mrk



I am well aware of an entry level receiver will not sound as good as another entry level stereo amp in the same price bracket.

Personally, I won't class a £3/400 amp as a "high" end amps, it's barely barely midrange on the grandscheme of things. The fact that you linked to a Krell shows that you do know what High End means. When you go into mono blocks designs and then separate the pre/power then you really start go into High End. A tiny little amp in a single plastic looking casing and reliance on the sales pitch for its digital side of things like Bluetooth as its main feature and call that high end? Really? Honestly?



For $500 more? You serious think that is actually a reasonable price to pay for wifi and HDMI?

I am sure if you go out and buy a $1000 receiver won't be "entry" level anymore, and I am sure a $1000 receiver will sound pretty good too.

I find it amusing the insistent on the Bluetooth feature. You either want the convenience of it wireless playback or do you actually want bluetooth itself? Why only limit yourself to streaming music from the phone, why not get an app on your phone and use that as a remote then stream your entire library from your computer to the amp? You can probably do this with your current set up, without the Bluetooth dongle you bought.



Oh...my amp history

Some Technics amp I pick up in Uni for £10.
A Marantz amp I got from Richer Sound - PM-66Ki sig
Then a NAD C370 for a brief period
Back to Marantz PM-6010 Ki sig
Then I had a Cyrus 7 & Naim 3
Had a Pioneer VSX-921 (this is entry level), returned after a week (not just because it had a dent).
Then I got my Pioneer LX55 (this is what I call "Midrange" receiver), more than double the VSX-921 (which I am paying for the sound quality, not features as they are pretty close)
Now my Musical Fidelity X-A2

I know the point of high quality audio amp thanks. I sold the NAD because I prefer the Marantz sound. MF's audio signature is closer to that of Marantz than Cyrus, and Naim was too clinical.

So it's clear you have your preferences, just like everyone else has theirs. The problem was that people were asking why you were so adamant to question the preference of other people just because it differed from your own. You dismiss their reasons as "excuses" :/

Anyway. I choose bluetooth because it's seamless. I'm not using a separate app to control the audio when I currently just click play in PowerAMP and music instantly comes out of the bluetooth output whether it's car or something else. You're forgetting the key point, convenience/efficiency. BT is just the most efficient way, there's no app to install, it works in 100% of apps without having to do anything other than initially pair bluetooth to the output.

The bluetooth dongle I bought isn't primarily for my amp. It's for when I'm mostly out and about staying at other places, for the sake of convenience.

Also, my entire music library is on my phone, that';s why I have a 64GB mSD card in there. Sure, there's a local copy on my PC which goes into the amp but PowerAMP offers a nicer interface for media list and queue control when I want to listen to music and I'm not sat at the desk which wifi remote apps do not (which I also have but seldom use because of the lack of convenience mentioned earlier).

A £400 amp won't be classed as high end, nobody has said it is in fact. But there's no reason why a good quality amp won't output high end sound. My Tannoy V4 was awarded best floorstanders in the up to £700 range by hifi magazines, I don't put much thought into those awards but at least they've compared against a whole bunch of others in that price range. How much were the V4s? £340.

 

[mrk]

In the context that they are compact desktop digital amps, they are certainly high end would you not say? Reports from CES were that they sounded every bit as good as you'd expect and nobody questioned the 3020 naming of the D (which they would have had it been only up to mid range).

It would be immensely helpful if you stopped mixing context. And I've not taken offence to anything other than your posts really. Up until a few posts ago nobody recommended an equivalent or suitable alternative and when they did I checked them out. Up until then it's been a discussion, well, as it turns out a debate...

I think I will just leave it there, it's a pretty pointless exercise to get you to understand a point within the right contexts and this isn't the first time either lol.

Have you looked at the bigger shops' ex-demo webpages? Also AVForums classifieds are always worth a look

Apart from RS and Empiredirect I've not bought from anywhere else before, any of note to look at? I do actively check AVF but nothing has come up that takes my fancy sadly.

 

[mrk]

Like I said, Bluetooth just works, immediately, and is said to be no different in quality to CD thanks to csr's apt-x codec. I never even considered it until recently when I got this system all sorted out via my phone and realised just how useful it is compared to other wireless means.

 

[mrk]

Review units are all out and have been for 2~ months and will be for a while yet so I'm just going to go into the fairly local Sevenoaks who have stock and demo then buy one on Saturday.

It's been too long now and I've been longing to go all digital and benefit from the digital connectivity benefits.

Reading Stephen's article on stereophile reinforced this somewhat.

It's going to cost £400 and I've got my C325 Bee on sale for £100.

I think I'll also be able to sell my Xonar STX soundcard as I'll be using async USB playback from the PC on this, no more need for analogue *edit* although I might still prefer the warm analogue output from the STX and upgraded opamps...

 

[mrk]

I've been reading up on it more and the noise floor improvements on an Asynchronous USB connection is one of the biggest benefits of using that vs coax/optical. I'm all for that. The D 3020 is said to have a nice spacious warm sound out of the box anyway so I think this will be covered nicely here and I won't need to the Xonar any more.

The PS3 will be connected using optical and that leaves the mini<>toslink connection free for whatever else.

 

[mrk]

So does this asynchrounous USB connection transmit bit perfect digital data? Is it in any way inferior to using an optical connection? How does it transmit sound information without a sound card? From the PC's motherboard sound? How do you tell the PC to transmit the sound information over USB?

It's obvious I know nothing about this, but it sounds interesting.

Essentially yes.

Naim have an excellent article on how USB audio connections work and the 3 types of protocols used over the years:
http://www.naimaudio.com/sites/defa...s/files/dac-v1_asynchronous-usb_mwp_jan13.pdf

Installation and use is the same way as any other USB device really, a driver is usually needed for Windows PCs (Macs support them natively) and in this instance NAD have the USB audio driver for download which tells Windows that it can use it as an audio output device and you can then select the output device from Windows Playback Devices panel in the system tray.

The downside is that you're limited to 2 channels so stereo only which is perfectly fine if you are not in a multi speaker setup. If you are multichannel then obviously optical out is the connection you want to use and that does mean using the mothoerboard or soundcard outputs.

 

[mrk]

How does it sound then mrk? compared to the 325?

Better or comparable?

I made a post about it here and before using the USB cable used the same RCA cable from the STX to the amp to see how it differed to the C325 as an analogue connection and it was cleaner sounding with a bit more detail. The USB connection is better yet with none of the background noise you get from analogue connections at high volume (that in itself isn't a problem, many people like that ambient noise as it reminds them of an LP).

Basically the sound is properly clean, more detailed and more lively without having to touch any tone or EQ controls in the playback software.

The Bluetooth streaming doesn't sound any different to the wired connection either. I was expecting this anyway since it's uses the apt-x codec.

 

[mrk]

Technology has shifted considerably in modern times. The man who designed the original 3020 did the same with this so excellent sq was never doubted

 

[mrk]

Think of it as £200 once you factor in that I've sold the old amp and sound card and the Chord cable that came free with the new amp.

Either way, nothing was wrong with the old amp, I fancied something new and wanted the modern digital and wireless connections with improved sound quality.

Oh and in relation to your post in the other thread, reclaim some space on the worktop.

Edit*
The USB connection is picky as to which port it will work with. I guess this is because on modern mobos the USB ports share resources with other ports. The front panel USB ports on my P67A G45 B3 are connected to the mobo internally, the rear 10 ports are on their own with 7 in use. I had to swap ports with another device before Windows would play any audio through the amp.

Worth mentioning I guess.

 

[mrk]

1050 does look decent yup, the website goes into more detail about the headphone amp stage too so I imagine it's got a beefed up amp in there to power higher ohm cans.

Edit*
I mentioned how much more purer music sounded on this compared to the STX. The below video should give an idea just how clear and audible everything is, everything has its place and string instruments, pianos etc all sound sublime and vocals when singing is going on at the same time are never hidden or out there in your face too much either, it's all just right.

 

[mrk]

So looks like the source input select bug I noticed on mine was actually a fault and not the energy saving bulbs interfering. A swift drive down to Sevenoaks of Southampton to get a swap-out and all is sorted. In store they said not to feel awkward if the issue doesn't present itself in store because they get that a lot with intermittent problems but thankfully the source input cycled all on its own when just plugged into the mains on the store counter.

It's the first bug they have seen out of the many units they've sold and this replacement seems fine. Burn-in must definitely a thing because U can immediately tell there's a sound difference between the one that got replaced and this one with 0 hours of use, mostly evident in the treble detail which opened up nicely on the last one after a week of solid use.

Rock on.

 

[mrk]

Until there's strong competition the price won't really get any lower and as it stands it's one of a kind so is still considered good value for money for what's on offer.

I'm still enjoying mine, don't see any reason not to. Sound is big and detailed still and it does exactly what NAD advertise. My remote battery is dying I think, it's one of those flat batteries so will replace that soon and other than that there have been no issues.

 

[mrk]

Bit of a bump... The D 3020 is currently on offer for £349.

I've noticed Sevenoaks have the D 7050 on offer for £649 currently and I'm mighty tempted. My current headphones, the AKG K7XX, are powered just fine from the D 3020 but they do need more juice than the HD 598 and Philips X1/X2 did.

Main reason for being curious about the 7050 is the auto rotating display orientation. I'm moving stuff around and would like to have the amp lying flat rather than upright. The D 3020 can be flat too but the display is LED and static and looks odd when doing so. Also I've been toying with wireless streaming over the network so the added network stream functionality would be a bonus.

I figure I could probably sell the 3020 for up to maybe £250-£300 based on mint condition and get the 7050 at the offer price.

Edit*
Oh and there's an Android app to control it all!: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.nadelectronics.NADD7050&hl=en

I'll decide over the next few days

 

[mrk]

Well I'm using PC upgrade budget as I have been looking at overhauling my PC for the past year or so but every time I come to price stuff up and looking at the % gains I am looking at vs the cost of new components, I just think "wow I'm not getting bang for buck here".

Seems the 3770K OC and 16GB DDR3 still has a few more years left before any games and apps start to make them look old. If I don't need to upgrade core PC components then I may as well add some extra gloss to the audio side of things

I'm not expecting a huge improvement in sound considering how well the D 3020 does that side anyway, but I will be making use of the network streaming side of things and Spotify etc.

Since getting the 3020 I have not missed ditching Analogue sources one single bit. Less power consumption, less heat generated, less deskspace consumed, higher quality sound and multiple features in one Wii sized box = No brainer.

 

[mrk]

So I've had half a day to spend with the D 7050 and here's what I have found differences wise compared to the 3020.

- On the 3020 the volume range goes tom -100dB to 0dB, 0 being the highest volume.
- My headphones are AKG K7XX, at -20dB they are what I'd call "Loud", beyond that I would fear I'd damage my ears in the long term.
- My current speakers are Tannoy V4, at -40dB they are loud enough to be used as garden BBQ speakers where guests can hear the music from open windows.

- On the 7050 the volume range is -90dB to +10dB, so many will immediately think "hang on this is quite low volume at -40dB" when in actual fact it's not, you've got an additional +10dB to scale with. NAD's documentation doesn't make this clear, nor does any review I watched or read.

You cannot check the 7050 firmware on the unit itself. On the 3020 you can. On the 7050 you just have to check it from the web based area from a browser tab so you have to have it connected to your WiFi or via Ethernet too.

On the 3020 remote the play/pause button acts as mute when using a non "connected" player device such as USB via PC. On the 7050 there is no mute function this way.

The more advanced settings such as power save, auto power off, sub crossover, IR channel and app control when in standby can only be set via the NAD Android/iOS app. I don't have a problem with this but I wish the app had a few more bells and whistles.

The D 7050 does not have the "Bass" extension button at the back like the 3020. I guess this is because the 3020 uses clever software methods to control some of the processing whereas the 7050 is a direct digital amp and shares components with their top line of amps and receivers. The 7050 has relays that click when turning on and off and when inserting and removing headphones. The 3020 is silent in operation.

The 7050 display is VFD, it will turn off after 10 minutes of no remote control or knob activity to conserve energy. Audio will remain active though of course. The display wakes up the moment you touch anything.

The sound quality is slightly improved. Vocals sound fuller, richer and the bass seems tighter and more refined. I can liken it to sitting in a 5 series BMW then switching to a 6 series. Both epic in comfort and nice, but the 6 is just that little bit nicer still.

The headphone is specced as "high end" on the 7050, the 1050 is a dedicated headphone amp yet still has the same volume range of the 3020. This leads me to believe that NAD has put more power into the 7050 headphone amp, especially considering the relay switching when inserting headphones and the 10dB shift.

So far I am impressed. The 3020 sound quality improved over the first 2 weeks of use so I imagine the 7050 might be the same.

I'm going to eye up potential speaker choices over the next few months as I want some speakers that focus almost exclusively on vocals and soundstage. I want tro match the characteristics of the AKG K7XX as close as possible as that is now the kind of sound I really like.