I think I've been discriminated against? Have I?

[helpimcrap]

I've never knowingly experienced discrimination so bear with me. Normally I'd put it down as I wasn't good enough etc. But having a significant disability mentally and somewhat physically (limited right elbow movement) means I sometimes need support to do a job to a normally high standard.

I could do the job no problem I think, but occasionally I make incorrect decisions based on rash thinking due to processing impairments. I have been diagnosed with restrictions and considerations based on medical neurological testing.
That's a bit of background on me.

Basically I went for a job (1 step up and similar to what am doing but community based) and didn't get it, but part of the feedback bugged me. They said that they felt fatigue would be an issue which implies that was part of the reasoning for not getting the job. Fatigue is a recognised side effect of having a stroke and I manage it well enough to work full days with no detriment to my performance which is a high standard.

The fact they have stated that a side effect of my disability is a reason for not getting employment contravenes the Equality Act doesn't it? It essentially means that anyone with a disability similar will not have a chance of employment and these are quite low paid jobs. Not jobs you need a degree for.

I'm not saying I should get preferential treatment to get the job, because whatever gender or race or religion etc it should be 100% equal with allowances to create an equal footing. Hence Equality Act. What I am saying is that I should get looked on in an equal manner. Otherwise I'm only ever good as a cleaner etc and there is no point trying to strive to better myself if based on what I cannot change will stop my future.

Have I been discriminated against based on disability?

I'm not fussed about money but was going to put a complaint in to try to get them to look at their own outlook as they are a company all about equality and discrimination.
Sorry for long post, I'm sure I could have created an easier read.
As a test I decided not to mention it in the next interview for a very similar role, just on the application (which they don't seem to check). They offered me the job.

What are people's thoughts?

 

[Deleted User 298457]

Honestly, I hired a guy who didn't tell me he had chronic fatigue. He told me during the on-boarding chat. He then told me he needed a break because the 20 minute coffee chat was exhausting. I didn't see him for 2 hours. He had a miserable 8 weeks and it ended with him being picked up by his father in law as it was all just to much for him to cope with.

Make a complaint, but also be honest with yourself. You are presumably massively 'abled' but a job where you are in the community dealing with all the other grief that comes with being "out and about" may not be the best job for you.

 

[Angilion]

[..] What I am saying is that I should get looked on in an equal manner. [..]

Then incurable chronic fatigue would be a relevant factor.

Whether or not taking a relevant factor into consideration is illegal is a different question (and one I don't know enough to answer).

 

[helpimcrap]

Honestly, I hired a guy who didn't tell me he had chronic fatigue. He told me during the on-boarding chat. He then told me he needed a break because the 20 minute coffee chat was exhausting. I didn't see him for 2 hours. He had a miserable 8 weeks and it ended with him being picked up by his father in law as it was all just to much for him to cope with.

Make a complaint, but also be honest with yourself. You are presumably massively 'abled' but a job where you are in the community dealing with all the other grief that comes with being "out and about" may not be the best job for you.

I'm not looking at it from a 'me' POV and whether I could do the job, more from a legal POV of whether it is actual discrimination.

I've seen people in the job who I would pee all over for ability but that's by the by.

 

[BallistixOnZ490]

1) You have to ask for, and be able to do the job with reasonable adjustments.

2) You can get up to £50,000 free money from the DWP to pay for those reasonable adjustments (access to work). They will give you a work capability assessment soon after you start a job if you ask them, then pay your employer for adjustments, even give you a support worker if too disabled.

3) Failure to ask for or mention you would have no difficulty with reasonable adjustments = no discrimination.

 

[adolf hamster]

Isnt part of it that its not discrimination if you cant perform the role with reasonable adjustments?

Wether the support you mention you need would be considered reasonable for that specific role is hard to say without knowing a lot more about the specific situation.

Edit: beaten to it

 

[helpimcrap]

1) You have to ask for, and be able to do the job with reasonable adjustments.

2) You can get up to £50,000 free money from the DWP to pay for those reasonable adjustments (access to work). They will give you a work capability assessment soon after you start a job if you ask them, then pay your employer for adjustments, even give you a support worker if too disabled.

3) Failure to ask for or mention you would have no difficulty with reasonable adjustments = no discrimination.

Thank you. This is what I was looking for as I know employers have to make reasonable adjustments, so to have no suggestions that even with reasonable adjustments we feel you are not fit for this role etc is disheartening. I was kinda after confirmation.
I felt mentioning it in the interview and the adjustments (coping strategies) I've made for myself to allow me to perform an equal duty would show creativity, but it seemed to reinforce their views.
I have mentioned it numerous times in my application so I have it in writing about recovering from severe injuries and saying I did not want to disclose if I have a disability (but never saying I do not have a disability), which should have prompted questions you'd have thought.

In all fairness, I've qualified for university so I can do the work. The jobs I applied for are not jobs needing degrees.

 

[helpimcrap]

1) You have to ask for, and be able to do the job with reasonable adjustments.

2) You can get up to £50,000 free money from the DWP to pay for those reasonable adjustments (access to work). They will give you a work capability assessment soon after you start a job if you ask them, then pay your employer for adjustments, even give you a support worker if too disabled.

3) Failure to ask for or mention you would have no difficulty with reasonable adjustments = no discrimination.

Thank you. This is what I was looking for as I know employers have to make reasonable adjustments, so to have no suggestions that even with reasonable adjustments we feel you are not fit for this role etc is disheartening. I was kinda after confirmation.
I felt mentioning it in the interview and the adjustments (coping strategies) I've made for myself to allow me to perform an equal duty would show creativity, but it seemed to reinforce their views.
I have mentioned it numerous times in my application so I have it in writing about recovering from severe injuries and saying I did not want to disclose if I have a disability (but never saying I do not have a disability), which should have prompted questions you'd have thought.

In all fairness, I've qualified for university so I can do the work. The jobs I applied for are not jobs needing degrees.

 

[GGizmo]

So if I'm reading this correctly.. you have a disability. But you think you can do the job. Then on the feedback form they give the reason for not giving you the job was because of a side effect of your condition?

If you don't get fatigued then I'd consider it to be discrimination because they have stereotyped that you have all the symptoms of your condition.

Did they ask you if you get fatigued during the interview?

 

[BallistixOnZ490]

So if I'm reading this correctly.. you have a disability. But you think you can do the job. Then on the feedback form they give the reason for not giving you the job was because of a side effect of your condition?

If you don't get fatigued then I'd consider it to be discrimination because they have stereotyped that you have all the symptoms of your condition.

Did they ask you if you get fatigued during the interview?

You have to be upfront with it and tell them your job performance won't be affected with reasonable adjustments.

You can't just let the employer guess if you are suitable or not.

Im not too sure about the following, but say you are simply slower at a job than someone else would be, access to work might simply pay a little to the employer to compensate for your lower performance. I don't think they do this though.

 

[Hades]

Possibly. But on the flip side an employer has a duty of care. If they felt that the work would make your medical condition worse then don't they also have to take that into account? I'm completely guessing here though.

 

[LeMson]

Lucky bugger getting an interview and feedback in this day and age

I get nowt :/

 

[helpimcrap]

Lucky bugger getting an interview and feedback in this day and age

I get nowt :/

Lol. I can get verbal feedback only, they never email and it's always at a time I don't have the time.

Thanks to everyone for their thoughts, even criticisms, as it puts another thought in. Technically I am under Neuro rehabilitation and have been since the head injury. However I am not on PIP or anything, so nothing official. With that in mind technically I wouldn't have to tell them (some are naturally slow, some cannot do mathematics etc), but being open and honest is my way. Maybe it's also my downfall.

Thank you for your help.

 

[helpimcrap]

Possibly. But on the flip side an employer has a duty of care. If they felt that the work would make your medical condition worse then don't they also have to take that into account? I'm completely guessing here though.

This was what prompted the original question in a way. As said, I am open and honest, know my limitations, have coping mechanisms etc. My current work, same employer, haven't been the most understanding and I've had to dumb it down for them to understand, even though understanding is part of their job. I go to other departments and get fantastic feedback from staff, so maybe I need to be less open and just keep my mouth shut until I find my niche. Minimum wage jobs it seems, are my future unless I ignore the head injury and all the fallout from that.

But hey, maybe I'm just misreading things and the world isn't as understanding as I think it should be. Maybe I'm reading too much into myself and I should pretend it never happened.

 

[fez]

This is the problem with this sort of thing. You have no idea why you didn't get the job. The fact that you got offered a similar job when you didn't explain your disability doesn't prove anything. Thats like flipping a coin 5 times and all of them coming up heads and deciding that the chance of heads coming up in future is 100%.

We don't know enough about you or the employer who didn't hire you to make a sound judgement. It is very easy in this current climate to equate anything negative to some sort of discrimination so its good to see you have an open mind and understand that its not that clear cut. My partner interviews for the NHS quite a lot and someone made a complaint that she had been discriminated against and her feedback made no sense. She didn't get the job because she interviewed badly, didn't have enough experience and there was a much better candidate. She couldn't accept that and decided it was sexism at play and made a formal complaint. As its the NHS they had done it all by the book and she was politely told to FO and she left that trust soon after. Point being, we only see these things from our own self centred point of view and there are a million reasons things don't go as we would like.

Congratulations on getting the job and I don't know if I would be putting the energy into talking to the other company or not. Up to you.

 

[krooton]

Whilst it certainly seems like it could be, at the same time aren't companies allowed to hire whoever they feel is best for the job?

Regardless of whether or not you were able to do the job, if someone else is able to do it 'better', doesn't the company have the right to choose that person?

As an extreme example, a person with no arms could, with the correct support, be capable of stacking shelves, but surely at a significantly reduced efficiency. So if they were up against a two-armed person, the company would probably not choose them.

If the disability has no actual bearing on the role, like an accountant who is in a wheelchair, then it is more likely to be classed as discrimination all other things being equal.

 

[arknor]

They said that they felt fatigue would be an issue which implies that was part of the reasoning for not getting the job. Fatigue is a recognised side effect of having a stroke and I manage it well enough to work full days with no detriment to my performance which is a high standard.

The fact they have stated that a side effect of my disability is a reason for not getting employment contravenes the Equality Act doesn't it?

sounds like they took the effort to find out what your disability is and how it would effect your ability to perform the role.

if they were discriminating they probably would have gave you a different made up reason or provided 0 feedback

 

[helpimcrap]

Thanks, I know I sound like I'm being a bitter little ***** about it, and it's for the best etc but I was curious.

I see discrimination and offensive comments unfortunately a bit in my line of work from people who should know better.

Thanks for the advice, and I understand I'm being cagey about the employer and that is the social media we live in.

 

[BallistixOnZ490]

In all fairness, I've qualified for university so I can do the work. The jobs I applied for are not jobs needing degrees.

No actually, I have to point out the major inaccuracy with this belief / statement.

Just because you pass a few essays and exams, doesn't mean that you can work or even necessarily function on a day to day basis.

If you have disabilities before you start university, then they offer reductions on work amounts, and even removing things you find too difficult, or letting someone else do them for you.

People with autism / ADHD diagnostics can have their word counts cut by half (10,000 word dissertation is now 5000 words for the same amount of credits).

A person who is Paraplegic but keen to study biology can have their support worker or the lab assistant do all the physical work during labwork.

I encountered both of these happening while I was studying.

Also the majority of degrees have no refection at all on your ability to stand and work a physical job for 40 hours a week. I speak from experience from being physically incapable of doing shop floor or café work anymore.

People with such a line of thought as yours are why employers no longer care about applicants with degrees.

If you cannot get a postgraduate job in the subject that you studied, don't expect any other 'lower requirement' employer to give the slightest crap about your degree.

You will actually find it to be easier to get a job if applying for one that doesn't require a degree, to not tell them you have a degree in the application or the interview.

 

[SexyGreyFox]

At the moment I spend a lot of time on two walking sticks or in a wheelchair and we are changing offices next week to work in the attic of a very old listed building and there are only stairs.
I've asked for a Stanner Chair Lift.