I want to confirm if my thoughts about audio receiver

[marius_ss]

I have 2.1 audio configuration in my room and my AV receiver its very old (i hope is going to last more years )))) and thinking to buy an stereo receiver! below is my 2.1 config=

PC===========>100W-AV-receiver=======>Active SUB with 100w AMP ==========>L,R 40W Yamaha bookshelf's

But I'm little bit unsure about it ! Can someone with more knowledge confirm if my statement is correct ?! From my knowledge if SUB has 100W integrated AMP then I assume that I can use instead of AV receiver with 100w any other receiver even with lets say 15W AMP !!??? or there are some limitation ?!

 

[The_Arbiter]

Yes, there will be a pre-out for a powered sub on most decent amps or AVRs, last time i looked... Also provided said amp/AVR can drive your bookshelves correctly.

If in doubt just visit or ring a reputable audio shop and ask what they can spec for you.

 

[hornetstinger]

I have 2.1 audio configuration in my room and my AV receiver its very old (i hope is going to last more years )))) and thinking to buy an stereo receiver! below is my 2.1 config=

PC===========>100W-AV-receiver=======>Active SUB with 100w AMP ==========>L,R 40W Yamaha bookshelf's

But I'm little bit unsure about it ! Can someone with more knowledge confirm if my statement is correct ?! From my knowledge if SUB has 100W integrated AMP then I assume that I can use instead of AV receiver with 100w any other receiver even with lets say 15W AMP !!??? or there are some limitation ?!

Power of your avr and subs isn't something you have to concern yourself.


You could use 10000w RMS active subwoofer with a 45w avr with sub out. Or a 40w active sub with 10000w avr with sub out

 

[hornetstinger]

If you change from a avr to a stereo amplifier you need to make sure the amp and sub have suitable connections

Avr Amps will have single sub out,

Stereo amps could have left and right pre out
Or possibly a subwoofer pre out
And high level outputs


Subs may have low level and or high level
Or possibly just low level

So if you had a amp with high level out only, and a subwoofer with low level input only, you won't have a way to connect the two.

 

[marius_ss]

If you change from a avr to a stereo amplifier you need to make sure the amp and sub have suitable connections

Avr Amps will have single sub out,

Stereo amps could have left and right pre out
Or possibly a subwoofer pre out
And high level outputs


Subs may have low level and or high level
Or possibly just low level

So if you had a amp with high level out only, and a subwoofer with low level input only, you won't have a way to connect the two.

I use high level in/out for my configuration nothing else !! my AVr its 1993 doesn't have SUB out connector !!
I assume even to connect from PC directly to SUB, it should do the job, correct me please if I'm wrong ?!

 

[hornetstinger]

What make model is the sub?

To use pc to sub you'll need a sub with line level input

Best method would be pc to AVR/stereo amp then onto speakers/sub

 

[lucid]

Your current system has a UK or European Dolby Surround receiver, I guess. Many of those didn't have a dedicated low level sub out (via RCA) because the sound track for Dolby Surround didn't include a dedicated low frequency effects track (LFE). That wouldn't become available to the mainstream until the arrival of DVD. However, Laser Disc users with American NTSC discs with AC3 audio and an AC3 RF decoder would have enjoyed the benefit of LFE.

Anyway, history lesson aside, your sub is where you need to look. It would be useful to give the model number.

If you bought a new stereo receiver then you could connect just as you are doing now - with the speaker wires; receiver to sub to speakers.

ETA, the Watts of the subwoofer only goes to power the bass speaker in the sub. It doesn't power the Yamaha speakers. They get their power from tge receiver. This is part of the reason why connecting tge sub and speakers to your PC won't work as you expect.

 

[marius_ss]

ETA, the Watts of the subwoofer only goes to power the bass speaker in the sub. It doesn't power the Yamaha speakers. They get their power from tge receiver. This is part of the reason why connecting tge sub and speakers to your PC won't work as you expect.

OMG .. how I missed this point!! that make sense absolutely, now i feel like a moron totally forgot about sub itself!!! so then turn out that I definitly need powerful enough AMP for bookshelf Yamaha !!

 

[lucid]

OMG .. how I missed this point!! that make sense absolutely, now i feel like a moron totally forgot about sub itself!!! so then turn out that I definitly need powerful enough AMP for bookshelf Yamaha !!

Don't be too hard on yourself. It's a relatively common mistake for people who have had PC speakers where there's a bass box and a couple of desktop satellites. All the power for those systems resides in the sub. It powers the bass speaker and also the satellites.

Using an AV system means doing things a little differently despite the new speakers resembling the sub/sat layout of the PC speaker system.

Is your old AV receiver not working properly, or do you need some new feature it doesn't have? What is your reason for planning to change the amp/receiver if it is still working okay?

 

[marius_ss]

Is your old AV receiver not working properly, .....What is your reason ..

There are 2 reasons why I have such plans !
1. Yes my old Technics SA-GX505 sometimes loosing one channel when starting PC and just increasing the volume little and its working OK, from my knowledge this should be easy to fix, however im a big fan of audio components from late 80s and 90s so I can't convince myself to throw it in the bin !
2. And here comes the 2nd reason; I'm just thinking to buy cheap device, possible from Cambridge Audio but not necessary. The reason behind this is that before I had my Infinity SUB + Technics AVR, just when i bought my cheap Yamaha i also get from eBay for literally £25 this device Cambridge Audio A1 and the music from this was way different ! I don't know how to describe but I noticed this as soon I changed it. I don't want say Technics is bad, its sounds ok but just doesn't have same music as that CA. Maybe because that was just Stereo AMP and Technics is all in one ?!? but I never believed that this its a easy thing to hear.

 

[lucid]

The difference in sound between the Technics and the Cambridge Audio amps isn't surprising.

The design of the SA-GX505 means it is aimed at a different type of customer to the Cambridge Audio. Where the Technics provides five main channels of amplification (plus Speaker B), lots of power, a spectrum analyser display (flashing lights), a four band parametric EQ (quite sophisticated for the time), two Tape/Video loop-thrus, video routing/switching, and AM/FM tuner, remote control, three adjustable EQ presets, and (stops to take big breath) fan cooling. Technics SA-GX505

The Cambridge Audio amp has almost none of that. It is stripped down to the basic functions. If the Technics is this, then the Cambridge Audio A1 is this. The difference of the design philosophy is what you hear in the sound. The A1 give you a taste of the precision of a proper Hi-Fi amp.

The CA A1 was available in two versions when first launched. The standard unit at £80, and then an uprated version with the large round transformer (a toroidal) and some improved components. There are more details here.

 

[marius_ss]

(stops to take big breath)

.... Yes this is what I like in those devices but apparently Ill add on top of it just a stereo AMP for music only ...

The CA A1 was available in two versions when first launched.

my was mk3..

 

[lucid]

my was mk3..

When Cambridge Audio launched the A1 (the mkI if you like) they made two versions. The standard A1 and the 'Hi-Fi' Special Edition (SE).

Then came the mkII, in standard and SE versions. Then the mkIII, and again, two versions: the standard and the SE version.

The mkIII standard version insides can be seen here. The Hi-Fi version - the mkIII SE - can be seen here. You should be able to see the different transformers and the uprated power supply in the SE version. Which one did you have?

.... Yes this is what I like in those devices but apparently Ill add on top of it just a stereo AMP for music only ...

my was mk3..

Spectrum analysers in the front display panel are a thing of the past. Sorry. LOL.

What you do get though with newer AV receivers is multipoint parametric EQ - but not just global like your 4-point system on the Technics. I'm talking about 'per channel' EQ. I have a couple of Yamaha AV receivers here where each speaker channel and the sub channel has 7-band parametric EQ. That means being able to adjust each speaker independently from the others. The Yamahas sound good for music too. Message me if you want more info so we don't take your thread off topic.

 

[marius_ss]

Well I realized that Ill go with the easy way, I'll buy stereo receiver or integrated amp, from the perspective of money-space-productivity its the best way !! I wish to go "quality" way with > DAC+PreAMP+AMP but this is over my budget ... and for my cheap Yamaha I don't see big logic !! Also still have in my head Class D device because of electricity but again I heard about they sound different than AB !!...

front display panel are a thing of the past.

well maybe it is for many but im from that generation so I rather have one of that instead of brand new ugly Marantz made in china ..
Anyway thanks for help !!

 

[lucid]

I think I can appreciate the points you make about liking '80s/'90s era audio gear, and that you like the spectrum analyser on the Technics amp.
At the same time though, you've also said that you heard a big difference with the Cambridge Audio amp compared to the Technics, and that you're working on a budget (but you haven't said what that budget is).

I'm sorry to have to point it out, but IMO there's a bit of a conflict here. Entry-level Hi-Fi amps - even ones from the '80s and '90s - didn't/don't have spectrum analysers.

I'm in my mid 50s, so I'm old enough to remember this sort of gear when it was new. I started reading about and buying Hi-Fi gear in the early '80s. Graphic Equalisers were a thing. Spectrum Analysers would come a few years later when LED display tech improved and got cheaper. The point here though is this kind of tech' was found on late '80s stack systems, or in the Pioneer and Technics separates catalogues. Both brands made credible mid-Fi product. This was stuff that was okay, but didn't really stand out from the crowd.

There were some exceptions. Pioneer, had an excellent 50W/ch budget Hi-Fi amp in the A-400 from 1990. Around a similar time, Technics had the 100W/ch SU-V900. Despite the extra power though (and the extra cost!), it didn't have the insight or entertainment level of the cheaper Pioneer. That is the problem here. You like what the Cambridge Audio A1 does, but you want something from a stereo equipment range that isn't built to do this.

Your choice then is to either buy the same sort of amp that you already own - even though it doesn't sound that good - or to go with an amp and a separate Spectrum Analyser. But here you hit the second problem; second-hand prices have gone very high - £150 / £250 / £400!! - for old bits of gear that 10 years ago you could have picked up for £10-£30. The price is fuelled by nostalgia rather than quality. Modern tech does a better job.

The EQ in a modern AV receiver uses a microphone to listen to the sound from each speaker in the room. It factors in the room effect, and then corrects for it. You still have tone controls, and you can override the EQ and tweak it to what you think sounds best, but in general it does a blooming good job of fixing a lot of common sound problems.

If you still want the flashing display, then instead of wasting a tone of money on some over-priced poor quality Equaliser, go buy the Fun Generation RTA-31. It's £115 + shipping. The frequency range is divided in to more segments (31 rather than the usual 7 / 12 / 15 of older gear) and it does a variety of display functions. Put the money saved into a better amp.

 

[marius_ss]

Don't take my words too serious lucid, the only concerns I had if technically I'm doing right, but regarding of EQ and display its something which i do like and I bough it because it is present on the market... so at the moment I'm aiming for integrated amp to see one more time if Ill see that difference!!... If I will, then I'll keep it.... as i said my Technics still has a good sound for me, yes I am trying to keep my music collection in flac/ape/wv but no more than that ! I'm not the person who will spend 100 units for a audio cable because I don't plan to buy Sonus faber speakers or Naim AMP... so I guess yo understand my level of audio..

 

[marius_ss]

...a better amp.

after few days of research I found some decent devices for me (Yamaha A-U670/A-U671 and Cambridge Audio CXA80) unfortunately prices are at serious level for me !! but the idea to connect PC > USB > AMP> SUB> Bookshelf's impressing me !!

 

[lucid]

If you had said, "Pick two amps you think I should demo", then I definitely wouldn't have put the Yamaha A-U670 and the CXA80 together. The Cambridge Audio amp is a serious bit of Hi-Fi gear. That versus say a Rega Brio with an external DAC, yeah, sure. But not the A-U670.

As much as I have a soft spot for Yamaha, I am also pragmatic. The A-U670 is designed for a very different market to the CXA80. The Yamaha is about small size, high power, cool running and it looks nice with those vertical bar controls. But it's small, powerful and cool running because it's a small Class D amp. There's nothing wrong with Class D. It can sound very good when done right (but it costs a lot), or you can have it where you need high efficiency (new generation Yam RX-V receivers use Class D, as have Pioneer and some Onkyo). What's more difficult is good Hi-Fi performance and a lot of power from a relatively cheap amp.

Maybe the Yamaha ill work for you, IDK. I wouldn't have considered that a serious competitor to the CXA80 though.

Side notes: The A-U671 doesn't look like it was ever ranged in the UK. It's now discontinued. The US price was $499. The model didn't last that long. About 2 years? That might tell you something about its Hi-Fi credentials.

CXA80 is discontinued. Was £750. Used prices around £450-£550. Replacement: CXA81 - £999

I still think you're missing a trick not talking to me about the Yamahas I have here. I run them with £1000/pr JM Lab speakers. You liked the CA A1. That was designed by Michael Creek. He designed the Creek CAS4040. I have one of those here as well, and it's a lovely amp as long as you have very sensitive speakers or don't want to play that loud. The Yamahas get very close but with a bigger presentation. You get a DAC and room EQ too, and less than the price of the A-U670.

 

[Flor_Fina]

Arcam SR250 should be on your list.

 

[marius_ss]

Arcam SR250

.. this monster looks nice but in my case doesn't fit in my standards !! I wish something below 12cm tall and another main point is that I need USB digital input otherwise I have to buy additionally a sound-card to insert in the only pci slot in my PC with other digital outputs !! thanks for recommendation, Arcam sr250 looks very nice for TV installation system but not in my case for PC sound!!