i5 2500k upgrade needed, I think (2nd hand buying advice)

[slim01]

So my new GTX1080, on new games...

Assassins Creed Origins - Medium/high settings @ 1440p = av fps 35?!
Quantum Break - Medium/low settings @ 1440p = av fps, 26?!!
...Doom - Max settings @ 4k = 60fps


Got used to thinking this day wouldn't come, but 8 years on and my legendary i5 2500k is clearly a bottleneck. Games are clearly using more cores/threads now.

So...
I'm looking for a used i7 bargain to upgrade before I go to China next month, around £90-£270.
-This is to last me a few more years. When I'm back I will buy new.
-I'll be taking a barebone (cpu/ram/mobo+gpu) with me then buying a case/cooler there.
-This REALLY has to be as cheap as possible, proper bargain basement stuff
(due to customs value allowance, difficulty of buying/building there +the fact it might be confiscated. +China isn't cheap, and often buy fake parts).

-Im thinking to buy used i7, are there many 6 cores out there? Any Xeons?
I did notice the i7-3970X Extreme is 6 cores/12T, AND quad channel ram, for just £140.
Anything I should be aware of with these? I notice they're not efficient for 140w? Mobos expensive?

So guys, what's best>>>

1) Stick with socket 1155?
2700k (£90 - £115)
3770k (£110 -£120)
(+get an AIO cooler and OC - £110).

2) New socket, but keep DDR3 ram...
eg the i7-3970X @ £140 (+ a Mobo)

3) DDR4 system from fleaBay
eg i7-7740X @ £185 (+ Mobo + Ram)



Thanks in advance guys & gals

 

[slim01]

Noticed Cpu bench only puts the 3770k at +2% compared to the 2500k? Is it even worth it (updating bios +£120 etc)? Although there are a handful of games that will benefit from hyper threading...

 

[slim01]

I'd look at the performance increase of Haswell desktop (4670/4790k, 4770/4790k) as you can keep your DDR3. Really it's time to go DDR4 IMO but that will cost you £100+ for 16GB.

A 4690k may do it for you with a decent overclock. What's your current clock speed?

Glad you've mentioned that chip, currently looking at a rig which has the following, and only on £200 atm

ASUS Z87-K
4770K
CORSAIR WATER COOLING
2x4gb AND 1 x 8gb DDR3 corasir "shileded gaming ram" (16gb ttl)
RM750 corsair
Evga 780
240gb samsung evo
+ Windows 10 (key code installed in mobo?)


How much you guys rekkon that lot is worth? could be worth a punt? -Keep the cpu/mobo, flog the rest? Around 350 maybe?

Guess that would give me PCI-ex 3.0 as well?

I'd look at the performance increase of Haswell desktop (4670/4790k, 4770/4790k) as you can keep your DDR3. Really it's time to go DDR4 IMO but that will cost you £100+ for 16GB.

A 4690k may do it for you with a decent overclock. What's your current clock speed?

currently clock around 4.3ghz - Unstable after that, think my mobo has had its day. used to get 4.8 stable.

If you wanna keep your ram, then the easiest path is to get a 3770k, or failing that, upgrade to a 4770k/4790k.
If you want hex core, then x79 platform has ddr3 support.
But tbh, not worth it now, as ryzen offers more performance for just a bit more outlay

how much is ryzen barebone comparable to a newish i5/i7?

I’m going to be selling some of my kit soon, which will include my 4790K, my mATX msi z97m motherboard, and 32gb of RAM. The Mobo will be going cheap because the second pcie slot doesn’t work. Other than that it’s been a great board; I’m currently playing MGS5 @ 3440x1440 on it. I’ll be offering a delid for those that want it.

If you’re looking for a performance jump a 4790k is what id go for, even if you don’t buy mine.

Sounds interesting, how soon? I got to china in 3 weeks!!

I have no idea what you guys are talking about with the MM yet.... Do I want to know?


I've been looking at resource manager and cpu is often at 100%... that is bottlenecking aint it? if gpu is below 100%? thought it was that simple

 

[slim01]

My basket at Overclockers UK:

• 1 x AMD Bundle - AMD Ryzen 5 2600, Gigabyte X370-Gaming 3, Team Group RAM *FREE 240GB SSD* *ONLINE ONLY* = £418.97
  • Memory Capacity:Team Group Vulcan T-Force 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4 PC4-24000C16 3000MHz Dual Channel Kit - Grey (TLGD416G30

Total: £429.47 (includes shipping: £10.50)
​

MM = members market, you need 1000 posts to qualify though


don't be silly. OP has a GTX 1080. Barring GPU failure/failing, it will cope very comfortably with the games OP mentioned at 1440p (doom at 4k/ultra is just about managable for a GTX 1080)
it's well known that ACO struggles with quad core processors and needs at least 8 threads to perform comfortably.

@slim01 its easy to see where the bottleneck is - just run task manager. I'm betting that when you're in game and you tab out to task manager, your 2500k should be at 95-100% load and your 1080 will be at 60-70% load.

This exactly... Yes, I've never, not even once seen the 2500k at consistent 95% -100%, and above the GPU usage. Not even on "CPU heavy" Ashes of The Singularity. Which got 55-60 fps at stock, 1080p.


Well that INTEL +ASUS Z87-K is over £300 now Lot of stuff with it though.... Hmmm how much ebaying can i be bothered with... Shame Im not allowed on this MM - Im guessing spamming is a good way to get banned... and annoy lol

that ryzen 5 2600 - Will it have unlocked multiplier, or is that what the x version is? as in the k for intel?

I recently upgraded from a 2500k to a 2700k.

Difference for me was palpable - 20fps more in BF1

Paid £75 for mine - want to get a 1070 to tide me over for another two years and then finally new machine

This does sound like what I'm after... Just to tide me over for a few years. Yeah I'm getting exited about getting a new Ryzen with ddr4 pci-ex3 etc etc... But im looking at £450+ for like.... 10% improvement... In only a handful of bottlenecked games.

I'm hoping games that can utilise the HT won't at least run like dog **** if I get 2 2700k... Am I likely to be able to overclock higher than my 2500k, even though now i seem to struggle getting the 2500k stable?

 

[slim01]

OK so I just won the auction on the 4770k for £329.

Total cost for upgrade after selling gumpf = £139...

Still not sure if thats worth it... 4790k would have been sweet, actual performance increases would be well over 10% from 2500k, guessing from looking at some benchmarks, but can't find anywhere that compares an OC'd 2500k to a OC 4770k... WHY do people bench review processors at stock... WHWHWYYYY?!?!

Pretty sure I wouldn't snag a deal for a 4790k for £139 ttl though... The board does support it though.... Maybe I'll go on the hunt still (maybe the 2nd highest bidder won't mind if i drop out... bit harsh on the seller though ) WANTON WHEN ARE YOU SELLING YOUR KIT!! Pleeeeeeeeease today!
---------------------------------------

Details;
Est Value...
£45 - ASUS Z87-K MOTHERBOARD.
£130 - INTEL i7 4770K CPU 3.50 GHZ
£35 - CORSAIR Liquid cooler.
= £215

Gumpf...
£40 2X4GB AND 1X8GB (16gb ttl) DDR3
£50 CORSAIR RM 750 MODULAR PSU
£60 EVGA GTX780
£40 EVO 840 SSD 240gb
= £190

Est value = £405
Paid = £329
After selling Gumpf for £190 ttl (net, after fees+p&p)
= £139 Paid

 

[slim01]

https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/2773-intel-i5-2500k-revisit-benchmark-for-2017/page-3

Judging by those specs, there must be something VERY weird going on in my system...

Ashes of singularity - All those cpus show around 20-40fps @ 1080p... My mild OC 2500k ran a very smooth 55-60fps on it... Their 7700k cant do 40? Never undestood why AoS was a cpu benchmarking tool.

The opposite with GTA V - There is no way I'd get even close to av 100fps on ultra @1080p... couldn't even get stable 60fps with high.

So guys I got the 4770k, but as mentioned above the 4790k appears a LOT faster in most benches I've seen, usually around 7-13%.

Is the 4790k basically just a factory overclocked 4770k?
Only difference I can see in specs of them is the 4790 is 4ghz (as opposed to 3.5).... So if I clock my 4770k to over 4ghz (should be pretty simple) then it should perform better?


Thanks for help guys,

Cant wait to play Assassins creed again, and hopefully this time a bit closer to 60fps, rather than 20 :s

Ye he has a 1080 but in 4k doom that will hit around 60

And quantum break is GPU HEAVYYYYYY im 1080p....
1440p?????

Oc origins in 1440p is gpu heavy too

From most of the Benchmarks I've seen on the 1080, it runs almost every game past 60fps (av) at 1440p, thats why I decided to get it... You saying a gtx1080 shouldn't be able to do 1440p on the games mentioned? What do you get on yours?

Cheers

 

[slim01]

I dont have a gtx 1080 but here is a guy with a 1070 and your cpu getting higher fps than u.. this is probably 1080p maxed

I played the same game on a 4.9ghz 2500k last year and i hit 60 fine on a rx 580 (1080p mix of medium and max settings)

https://youtu.be/LHZqi19HaBY

I quantum break a gtx 1080 overclocked can just about hold 60fps...

Well maybe that insane OC of yours makes a hige difference... Now I can barely get mine to 4ghz... Get temps of 90-95oC. This might be to do with swapping to a HTPC case. Temps have always been higher, since swapping, but not re-applied an overclock in years, as well... Never needed to. All other games have ran fine (maybe about 20 games or so). But I think now the games I'm trying are getting the CPU working (hard) the temps are sky-rocketing... OC is failing due to heat.

In china I'll prob be getting a full tower case anyway - Gonna need it - I heard the Ivy bridge / 4770k run HOT. And China is, well hot. Why did Intel put stupid tim inside the cpu? The sandybridge processors were legendary for overclocking. Literally the only thing I used to do is change multiplier for easy 4.5ghz.
Got a single 12cm corsair water cooler with the 4770k... I hope it's up to the task.

 

[slim01]

remember though, ACO and especially Quantum Break run pretty bad even on a high end new system..

I played through both when i had my 1080 and that was using an Oc'd Ryzen 7 and QB especially played like mince.

And Doom on a 1080 @ 4k is a 60fps experience.

How bad? Because everywhere I see benchies for AC-O, it shows the 1080 and even 1070 getting well over 60fps av, and minimums of like 50, at 1080p.
A (4 core/4T) 7600k shows everywhere as 75 av fps, and around 55min... Thats at ULTRA.

I'm thinking that what I'm seeing is a memory bottleneck - The game obliviously needs FAST ddr3 or ddr4. My 2500k build seems screwed then, because I literally cannot get my memory higher than 1600mhz, and only one channel is in dual channel (have 4x4gb, both corsair vengeance, but the blue colour actually has a VERY slight difference in CAS).
If i set the XMP 1866, it doesn't even POST

Have u tried a better thermal paste?
Ye i had the cpu on a hyper 212evo (£25 cheepo cooler) ..am using a hyper 212x on my 5820k and im getting its max overclock and i have no case fans...
Listen..do what i do..
Put your pc on its side.. and open the side pannel and leave it off..

That will lower temps big time...

Whats your cpu voltage...
At 4.9ghz in quantum break on a rx580 i was nearly maxing the cpu but i was mainly gpu bottlenecked

But ye as the dude above said like meeeee...

U are gpu bottlenecked...

In ac origins.. u will be both gpu and cpu bottlenecked

Ac origins loves 6cores 12 threads and 8core sixteen

Doom .. put on the built in performance metrics when u play the game

Look at where it says " avg, min, max, last"

The one where it says last..
Which ever one has the highest number? Is your bottleneck..
Im betting at 4k.. its gona have the gpu

Hmm hold on..thats weird.. its saying my cpu is my bottleneck hmmm at 1440p aswell..
Hmm maybe u are right..
Never mind..
Ok on the cyberdeamon boss level ye..
Anything above 900p? Im gpu bottlenecked...
Your 1080 is close to my fury x in doom..

But honestly yeah? I would say to wait for next gen consoles to arrive..

See how many cores they have? And then use that to have your pc at minimum having the base spec that the consoles have...

Looking at how games are going? Its gonna be at least 8 cores...
Microsoft puts advertisements in the xbox dashboard now so they make more money so the next xbox may be powerfull... who knows

Ye in doom for me to become cpu bottlenecked i have to put the game to 800x600 ..and even then im not cpu bottlenecked.. its the game maxing at 200fps....

Yeah, using the best paste - Thermal grizzly kyronaut. I can take lid off... but well, i have a water cooler now that came with the 4770k... Hopefully it does an ok job, its corasir single 12cm fan one...

Yeah I think 8 core is the way forward.... no way im spending 500 on a cpu though. sorry intel! maybe ryzen will start to show its worth soon

 

[slim01]

Ryzen 3 is out next year.....

Thats weird though.. sandy is usualy enough....
4770k should be fine for a few years..

At least u are happy .. thats all that matters end of the day

Yeah happy for now, hope in the next two years there's a bigger leap in CPU performance. Would love an AMD build again.

I hope AMD work on the per core performance rather than adding more cores... their 8/12/16 core offerings are plenty for next few years of gaming.

I heard the next threadripper will be like 37 cores?!?! Really no point for gaming... Threadripper with extra 500mhz per core? That would have demolished anything from intel.

 

[slim01]

4 DIMMs should certainly work in dual channel mode.
Memory bus speed doesn't have anything to do with that.

But 4 DIMMs puts more load on platform for getting higher speeds.
So have you tried slightly upping memory voltage?
Also memory controller might benefit from slight increase of voltage.
Looks like it should be VCCSA in Sandy Bridge:
https://www.hardwaresecrets.com/understanding-all-voltage-configurations-from-the-motherboard/4/
https://www.reddit.com/r/overclocking/comments/8en7it/sandy_bridge_imc_voltage/



Well, 7nm Zen2 might pull something like 20% single core/thread performance increase from current Ryzens.

IPC increase rumors have been 10-15%, with one of the later ones being 13%.
Which shouldn't be that hard if AMD has used time since finalizing Zen1 to improve memory controller/latencies closer to Intel's and Infinity Fabric, besides intra core improvements.
AMD certainly lacked both money/resources and time to do everything in Zen1.
Besides first version of any such dramatically new architecture being far from the best.
And current Ryzens are also held back by GloFo's manufacturing process, licensed from Samsung, having been originally designed for mobile chips, which limits clock speeds clearly behind Intel.
(has likely hurt also AMD GPUs)
TSMC's 7nm node used by AMD again has been designed/optimized for high performance from the start and hence should clock decent amount higher.
(TSMC has another 7nm node for those mobile SOCs of Apple/Huawei/Qualcomm)

This sounds amazing, I really hope you speak the truth with AMD. Would love some better competition in cpu market, theyre finally showing a real good comeback IMO.

X x X I have no idea what you mean buddy, but I love the Bruce Lee quotes... I do hope you told that to Microsoft

 

[slim01]

Hi mate. If you want someone to see a specific post the best way is to use the @. Like @slim01

Unfortunately as per the mod edit selling outside of the MM is not permitted. Send me a Trust if you want any specific help or advice and you don’t want to derail the thread, but I’m afraid I can’t sell it to you through the forums; I’ve not been banned in 15 years and I don’t plan on breaking the habit

Besides, I won’t be selling for at least a week so I believe I’ll be too late for you anyway

I believe the 4790K has better TIM and a small boost in clocks. If you’re delidding (which I highly recommend you do) then you probably won’t notice.

I’d stick with the 4770K, buy/borrow a Delid Die mate, some high temp silicon sealant, and some liquid electrical tape (you can use nail varnish, but imo the liquid tape is way better). Delidding is obscenely easy as long as you’re not one of those unfortunate people born with thumbs for fingers.

I'm not sure what this means - Hi mate. If you want someone to see a specific post the best way is to use the @. Like @slim01

I can't see a like button anywhere. I have Trust/multi/quote.

But yeah... Just waiting for my liquid metal. I have my RTV sealant, craft knife and lovely lovely nail varnish ready to go!
My mrs did wonder why I was asking her what colour nail polish she wanted.. But hey... It was buy 1 for £4 or 3 for £5!! Got into a tricky explanation which ended simply in "I'm just doing brain surgery on my computer... Don't worry babe, I'm a doctor, not a transvestite. ".


My main worry with this is transportation to China though... This CPU is going to be moved around... A LOT.
Do you think it's best I do this after I've gotten to china? The liquid metal looks very.. Well...Liquid. Will it seep out with lots of force? Will I have to reapply more if I take off the lid again to check it's still on the die (and not over the pcb) when I get to China?

 

[slim01]

Like this??

@Sgarrista

 

[slim01]

Like @Sgarrista

 

[slim01]

buy/borrow a Delid Die mate

Are these nessacery? Personally I don't like the look of them... Looks like they could potentially twist/snap the pcb or IHS... They look like they use a lot of force. So I'd be inclined to first slice the old sealant anyway.