Iceland law to outlaw male circumcision sparks row over religious freedom

chroniclard said:
Not circumcised myself, is there actually any medical reason for it? :confused:
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Apparently I had an infection when I was 3 (I don't remember), so was circumcised on medical grounds. The problem is "on medical grounds" is sketchy as hell. There are other ways to treat infections, but at the time it was the go-to solution.

Circumcision is an operation, all operations carry risk. Lots of circumcisions go wrong, leaving you with pain or discomfort for life. Even if they "go to plan" like mine did, you lose sensitivity - all that skin with nerve endings is gone! Add a condom to that and I don't even bother having sex anymore, it's annoying when the girl's screaming her head off and you're not getting much out of it. As a consequence I'm alone and probably always will be.

If I had the choice as an adult there'd be no way I'd let someone take a knife to my ****. IMO it's exactly the same as FGM, it should be illegal. As a religious practice, it reflects really badly on those religions. There are other barbaric religious practices. As a society we need to be able to look at a religion and judge it objectively. The rights of a person to believe in cloud-cuckoo-land shouldn't ever be at the expense of someone else's life, liberty, pursuit of happiness, etc.
 
rotters said:
We have many scandals over female sexual organ mutilation ie sowing up but have allowed little boys to be "mutilated" for eons...for me this is right, allow the chap to decide when he is older.


rotters
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This ^^^.

Although I fully expect the "but this is anti-Semitic" card to be plastered over the news in 5...4...3...
from the Guardian article said:
One in three men globally is thought to be circumcised, the vast majority for religious or cultural reasons. Many Jews and Muslims fear the issue of circumcision could become a proxy for antisemitism and Islamophobia, pointing to similar tensions over religious dress and the ritual slaughter of animals for meat.

Muslim and Jewish leaders attacked the proposal, while Cardinal Reinhard Marx, president of the Catholic Church in the European Union, said the bill was a “dangerous attack” on religious freedom. “The criminalisation of circumcision is a very grave measure that raises deep concern.”
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...oops, too late.

And that Catholic cardinal really needs to take a long hard look at the criminal and morally repugnant activities his own religion has promoted and tried to cover up before lecturing others.
 
billysielu said:
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Have a close friend with a similar story to yours, and he's the same way now, doesn't bother looking for a partner as he can only get himself to finish and with sex being a pretty big part of a relationship, it always led to the woman feeling like she wasn't good enough or that he wasn't interested.
 
The thought of circumcision makes me cringe :eek:, I'm certainly glad my parents didn't decide for me whether to mutilate my penis. It seems sensible to give them the choice when they are old enough to understand the pros and cons.
 
For some strange reason it's still culturally acceptable to mutilate a male baby's genitals.

I've never figured out why.
 
I can't comment on how much it hurts for a baby, but I was circumcised due to medical reasons at 24.

In my case, I was under general anaesthetic during the operation. Upon waking up their wasn't much pain but it was uncomfortable.

I wouldn't say I had much pain really, maybe the odd pain where I knocked it, or getting dressed. It was however very uncomfortable for a few months due to sensitivity.
 
Evian said:
It's more of an American thing anyway Circumcision is it not?
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It's a big business in the US. A lot of money made out of something which is totally un-necessary and can actually be dangerous (as any surgery is).

It's not "religious freedom" if your making the choice for the kid. Removing their ability to make the choice for themselves later in life. More and more people wan't nothing to do with religion.
 
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Muslim and Jewish leaders attacked the proposal, while Cardinal Reinhard Marx, president of the Catholic Church in the European Union, said the bill was a “dangerous attack” on religious freedom. “The criminalisation of circumcision is a very grave measure that raises deep concern.”
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Its amazing the levity religions inspire.... Just imagine that Judaism (and its subsequent successor religions) never existed and some one today turned up and said

"i have good news fellow men... I have been speaking to god and he has said that we alone will be his special, chosen people.. .

Oh and by the way part of our side of the agrement is that he want us to cut the ends of the penises of our baby boys and that the correct method to carry out this act can include the use of non surgical instruments and practitioners and may include the practitioner using their mouth to stop the bleeding after the cutting part has been dealt with.....

But don't worry guys god has a sense of humour.... Like just the other day he commanded me to sacrifice my son and i was already to do so when god said i didn't have to and it was all a test! What a practical joker!

As Christopher Hitchens correctly observed.... If you want otherwise decent people to do terrible things you need something like religion
 
Nasher said:
It's a big business in the US. A lot of money made out of something which is totally un-necessary and can actually be dangerous (as any surgery is).

It's not "religious freedom" if your making the choice for the kid. Removing their ability to make the choice for themselves later in life. More and more people wan't nothing to do with religion.
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Exactly. The moment a religious group uses the argument that it is part of their religion, remind them of the other barbaric bits in their book that they choose not to follow, i.e. killing people for working on the wrong day of the week or eating the wrong kind of shellfish, fining rapists, how badly they can beat their slaves, killing children at the edge of town for being disrespectful to their parents, etc, etc, etc....
 
enkoda said:
Exactly. The moment a religious group uses the argument that it is part of their religion, remind them of the other barbaric bits in their book that they choose not to follow, i.e. killing people for working on the wrong day of the week or eating the wrong kind of shellfish, fining rapists, how badly they can beat their slaves, killing children at the edge of town for being disrespectful to their parents, etc, etc, etc....
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My personal favorite is where god starts issuing edicts about fashion....

You shall not wear cloth of wool and linen mixed together.
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Yeah this should be the norm. If a kid gets to 18 and chooses they want to do it fine. But until then leave this barbaric practice in the past and leave metzitzah b’peh back there too.

Edit: To people who are at work, I wouldn't google image search that if you are unaware of it. Basically it is a practice where 'oral suction' is used after circumcision. Yes that is what you think it is. No it's not practised widely. But it does go on.
 
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Mason- said:
Yeah this should be the norm. If a kid gets to 18 and chooses they want to do it fine. But until then leave this barbaric practice in the past and leave metzitzah b’peh back there too.
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I've just had to google this and I'm speechless...:eek:
 
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