If anyone actually thinks a vote for Labour is a good vote, look here

[nero120]

Right, this has been posted in SC but I think needs to be posted here in GD for you plebs () that don't look in SC or read the news so you can understand just how downright dangerous Labour political philosophy is:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7409593.stm

Lets just break this down shall we? Labour ministers want to introduce a database that will store details of every phone call and e-mail sent in the UK. They justify this by arguing that it is essential for counter-terrorism and investigation of crime purposes.

Now, considering their track record of managing IT projects of this scale, not to mention their attitudes towards data security one might think they would have realised that even if this kind of measure was warranted, they are simply not capable of delivering it. However, it seems that Labour will stop at nothing to abuse it's powers and curtail our liberties with pathetic excuses that clearly do not add up. Since when was it essential for police to have access to every phone call or email in order to solve crimes? Did the world of policing not function adequately before we had access to this kind of technology? Labour clearly would prefer the old centralised authoritarian approach of control, with the use of CCTV tracking peoples movements and databases storing even word they say and type in order to use against them at a later date.

Okay, let's just take a breath and assume that this Labour government genuinely has the UK's best interests at heart, and they feel that these measures will improve the country. Can they not see how dangerous it would be to grant a government this kind of power and control over it's citizens? Whilst you have a benevolent government who would not think of abusing these powers all is well and good, but it is only a matter of time before individuals get into power who could not resist wielding such powers for their own benefit. Imagine if the Nazis had this kind of infrastructure setup and available to them when they rose to power, god they did well enough without it! It is foolish to think that these powers would never be abused and once they are in place it is only a matter of time before every citizen becomes a suspect and their every action is observed and used against them in order to weed out the "bad seeds". Just read the book 1984 by George Orwell if you want to understand a very real future that would be made possible by this legislation.

So, if any of you actually walk around with the idea that you have to vote Labour and would never vote Tory (either because you are northern, a student, an idiot or a combination of the above), understand the ramifications of your simpleton ideology. Labour have already made the UK the most monitored country in the world thanks to a frighteningly vast amount of CCTV cameras out there. It is a very real possibility if these Labour ministers have thier way, that your children will inherit a nightmarish police state society, and the liberties that your ancestors fought for and that you so take for granted will be nothing more than a faded memory.

 

[penski]

Right, this has been posted in SC but I think needs to be posted here in GD for you plebs () that don't look in SC or read the news so you can understand just how downright dangerous Labour political philosophy is:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7409593.stm

Lets just break this down shall we? Labour ministers want to introduce a database that will store details of every phone call and e-mail sent in the UK. They justify this by arguing that it is essential for counter-terrorism and investigation of crime purposes.

Now, considering their track record of managing IT projects of this scale, not to mention their attitudes towards data security one might think they would have realised that even if this kind of measure was warranted, they are simply not capable of delivering it. However, it seems that Labour will stop at nothing to abuse it's powers and curtail our liberties with pathetic excuses that clearly do not add up. Since when was it essential for police to have access to every phone call or email in order to solve crimes? Did the world of policing not function adequately before we had access to this kind of technology? Labour clearly would prefer the old centralised authoritarian approach of control, with the use of CCTV tracking peoples movements and databases storing even word they say and type in order to use against them at a later date.

Okay, let's just take a breath and assume that this Labour government genuinely has the UK's best interests at heart, and they feel that these measures will improve the country. Can they not see how dangerous it would be to grant a government this kind of power and control over it's citizens? Whilst you have a benevolent government who would not think of abusing these powers all is well and good, but it is only a matter of time before individuals get into power who could not resist wielding such powers for their own benefit. Imagine if the Nazis had this kind of infrastructure setup and available to them when they rose to power, god they did well enough without it! It is foolish to think that these powers would never be abused and once they are in place it is only a matter of time before every citizen becomes a suspect and their every action is observed and used against them in order to weed out the "bad seeds". Just read the book 1984 by George Orwell if you want to understand a very real future that would be made possible by this legislation.

So, if any of you actually walk around with the idea that you have to vote Labour and would never vote Tory (either because you are northern, a student, an idiot or a combination of the above), understand the ramifications of your simpleton ideology. Labour have already made the UK the most monitored country in the world thanks to a frighteningly vast amount of CCTV cameras out there. It is a very real possibility if these Labour ministers have thier way, that your children will inherit a nightmarish police state society, and the liberties that your ancestors fought for and that you so take for granted will be nothing more than a faded memory.

Fail. Godwin invoked.

*n

 

[platypus]

So, if any of you actually walk around with the idea that you have to vote Labour and would never vote Tory (either because you are northern, a student, an idiot or a combination of the above), understand the ramifications of your simpleton ideology.

Labour voters may be all of the above, but you demonstrate a fairly high level of naivety in your post.

I have a pot of coffee, freshly made for you, or if you'd rather - a chilled glass of orange juice. I could, at a squeeze, allow you to sup some of my ice cold Mars Energy drink from the sweaty teat of reality.

 

[Visage]

OUTRAGE! OUTRAGE OUTRAGE!

This scores 7.8 on my OMGTTEHGOVERMENTSZARETERRIBKLES-OMETER.

 

[Masterdog]

Lets just break this down shall we? Labour ministers want to introduce a database that will store details of every phone call and e-mail sent in the UK. They justify this by arguing that it is essential for counter-terrorism and investigation of crime purposes.

Um, no. Labour ministers haven't even seen the plans yet. It's right there in the article.

I think it's a bad idea and I don't think it will get very far. But I think it's a simpleton ideology to base one's vote on a single issue. I agree much more with Labour principles generally than I do with Tory ones.

 

[Rilot]

We have no idea what the Tories will do if they gain power.

Remember that Labour have been in power since 1997. email and the internet only became widespread AFTER they came to power.

There is nothing in the Tories' mandate that says they won't try and do the very same thing.

I am a Tory voter by the way. Always have been, always will be because I share their philosphy that the individual has the right to choose, rather than the Labour philosophy of choosing for me.

 

[Makunouchi]

Fail. Godwin invoked.

*n

Hehe, had to google that:

                            Godwin's Law FAQ
                                  -or-
              "How to post about Nazis and get away with it"

One of the most famous pieces of Usenet trivia out there is "if you mention 
Hitler or Nazis in a post, you've automatically ended whatever discussion 
you were taking part in".

Anyway, what your talking about is inevitable, eventually the government (or whatever ruling body it will be at the time) will know everything about you, and keep vast databases on everyone living within its boarders. You can fight it, but frankly your just delaying it, and not by much because one government is as bad as the others.

 

[Bill101]

Do you notice that The Tories are not opposed to doing this, their only worry is if the Gov. of the day, remember the same civil servants will be in charge of the data no matter who is in power, misplaces the information

 

[ScarySquirrel]

Who shall I vote for?

 

[Lysander]

Right, this has been posted in SC but I think needs to be posted here in GD for you plebs () that don't look in SC or read the news so you can understand just how downright dangerous Labour political philosophy is:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7409593.stm

Lets just break this down shall we? Labour ministers want to introduce a database that will store details of every phone call and e-mail sent in the UK. They justify this by arguing that it is essential for counter-terrorism and investigation of crime purposes.

Now, considering their track record of managing IT projects of this scale, not to mention their attitudes towards data security one might think they would have realised that even if this kind of measure was warranted, they are simply not capable of delivering it. However, it seems that Labour will stop at nothing to abuse it's powers and curtail our liberties with pathetic excuses that clearly do not add up. Since when was it essential for police to have access to every phone call or email in order to solve crimes? Did the world of policing not function adequately before we had access to this kind of technology? Labour clearly would prefer the old centralised authoritarian approach of control, with the use of CCTV tracking peoples movements and databases storing even word they say and type in order to use against them at a later date.

Okay, let's just take a breath and assume that this Labour government genuinely has the UK's best interests at heart, and they feel that these measures will improve the country. Can they not see how dangerous it would be to grant a government this kind of power and control over it's citizens? Whilst you have a benevolent government who would not think of abusing these powers all is well and good, but it is only a matter of time before individuals get into power who could not resist wielding such powers for their own benefit. Imagine if the Nazis had this kind of infrastructure setup and available to them when they rose to power, god they did well enough without it! It is foolish to think that these powers would never be abused and once they are in place it is only a matter of time before every citizen becomes a suspect and their every action is observed and used against them in order to weed out the "bad seeds". Just read the book 1984 by George Orwell if you want to understand a very real future that would be made possible by this legislation.

So, if any of you actually walk around with the idea that you have to vote Labour and would never vote Tory (either because you are northern, a student, an idiot or a combination of the above), understand the ramifications of your simpleton ideology. Labour have already made the UK the most monitored country in the world thanks to a frighteningly vast amount of CCTV cameras out there. It is a very real possibility if these Labour ministers have thier way, that your children will inherit a nightmarish police state society, and the liberties that your ancestors fought for and that you so take for granted will be nothing more than a faded memory.

I don't care. We should be under the assumption that everything we say and do is recorded somewhere anyway [it probably is]. This would only really worry you if you were doing - or thinking of doing - something illegal. If you're not, why are you worried?

I'm not fussed about invasions of privacy. Every time you walk down the street there's a camera. A lot of what you do is stored somewhere. It's all part of being in the 21st century. Life's too short to worry about it.

 

[Muffin`]

This government has no time to "want" anything. They are already relic of the past. Anyway, I like this bit:
"A Home Office spokesman said the data is a "crucial tool" for protecting national security and prevent crime."

It's almost as if we lived in a parallel universe where bank robbers send themselves emails with "Jason, bring your AK47 for bank job at Natwest in Fleet Street at 17:05" instructions, terrorists have casual conference calls with TNT manufacturers and ISPs have resources to go through every email with keywords along the lines of "it blows" and "dude, it's a bomb".

It's yet another unrealistic project proposed by some thick, old age trotskist simpleton who thinks internet is rows of tubes that can be listened to by putting glass to the wall while email traffic can be recorded on DVD and read fortnightly before going to bed.

^Nail, head.

 

[Dj_Jestar]

"They" already have a system that listens to every phone call anyway, and every email that passes through the UK "backbone" is scanned, too.

 

[Muffin`]

I'm not fussed about invasions of privacy

Do you vote for Labour?

 

[nero120]

Labour voters may be all of the above, but you demonstrate a fairly high level of naivety in your post.

I have a pot of coffee, freshly made for you, or if you'd rather - a chilled glass of orange juice. I could, at a squeeze, allow you to sup some of my ice cold Mars Energy drink from the sweaty teat of reality.

Is it naive to think that these measures are neither warranted nor wise, and that such centralised, authoritarian plans would only ever see the light of day in a Labour government?

 

[Kemik]

So, if any of you actually walk around with the idea that you have to vote Labour and would never vote Tory (either because you are northern, a student, an idiot or a combination of the above), understand the ramifications of your simpleton ideology.

Wow, I'm Northern, a student and I've heard idiot been thrown around in the past, and I vote Tory. Has you head exploded due to the large amount of FAIL in your statement?

Implementing email tracking for every email sent and received in the UK would be an impossible task.

 

[platypus]

Is it naive to think that these measures are neither warranted nor wise, and that such centralised, authoritarian plans would only ever see the light of day in a Labour government?

I think you're being naive in your bias against labour.

And given that certainly all mobile conversations, and text messages, are logged and recorded anyway, truly what difference does it make if all phone conversations are too?

Implementing email tracking for every email sent and received in the UK would be an impossible task.

Would it?

 

[nero120]

We have no idea what the Tories will do if they gain power.

Remember that Labour have been in power since 1997. email and the internet only became widespread AFTER they came to power.

There is nothing in the Tories' mandate that says they won't try and do the very same thing.

I am a Tory voter by the way. Always have been, always will be because I share their philosphy that the individual has the right to choose, rather than the Labour philosophy of choosing for me.

Point taken, but the tories have never proposed anything amounting this kind of centralisation. Tory philosophy is traditionally opposed to centralisation of powers.

All I'm saying is that if certain people are of the mind that they would only ever vote Labour, they should bear this news very highly in mind and reassess their way of thinking.

 

[nero120]

I think you're being naive in your bias against labour.

Not biased, just pointing out what this government is very capable of given half a chance. I don't argue that the Tories are the shining solution to us all, only that individuals should think very carefully if they plan to only ever vote Labour.

And given that certainly all mobile conversations, and text messages, are logged and recorded anyway, truly what difference does it make if all phone conversations are too?

Whilst this is true, never would the government so readily be able to access this information. It brings us one step closer to police state heaven.

 

[platypus]

I don't think that the Tories are a shining solution either. I just think you displayed some naivety in your original post so said so.

I think we're pretty much already in a covert police state. Whether we head down the totalitarian route or not is a different matter.

 

[nero120]

Wow, I'm Northern, a student and I've heard idiot been thrown around in the past, and I vote Tory. Has you head exploded due to the large amount of FAIL in your statement?

I realise what I said may have come across insulting, if so I apologise. It's only that in my experience, the type of people who say they would only ever vote labour and say the word "tory" with utter revulsion, fall into those groups I mentioned.