If there's really global warming...

Steve2000 · 10 Aug 2008 at 22:38

Jesus wept there's always one. Are you advocating that if every human on Earth stopped emitting CO2 alltogether then global warming/climate change would stop?

Have a day off please.

Fibre_Optic · 10 Aug 2008 at 22:40

EsaT said:
Like we say here in Finland...
Take your head out of that place "to where sun doesn't shine".

There is a close correlation between Antarctic temperature and atmospheric concentrations of CO2. The extension of the Vostok CO2 record shows that the main trends of CO2 are similar for each glacial cycle. Major transitions from the lowest to the highest values are associated with glacial-interglacial transitions. During these transitions, the atmospheric concentrations of CO2 rises from 180 to 280-300 ppmv. The extension of the Vostok CO2 record shows the present-day levels of CO2 are unprecedented during the past 420 kyr. Pre-industrial Holocene levels (~280 ppmv) are found during all interglacials, with the highest values (~300 ppmv) found approximately 323 kyr BP.
http://cdiac.ornl.gov/trends/co2/vostok.htm
Mysteriously CO2 concentration started rising same time with industrial revolution and currently we're going around 375ppmv.

Maybe you'll next claim that bullet through head doesn't kill...

Finally some sense!!
Global Warming DOES exist and practically all respected experts in the field agree this now!!
But I guess the OC's armchair experts know something these people who have been studying this all their life don't? I suggest you let them know so that they can stop making idiots of themselves :rolleyes:

Glaucus · 10 Aug 2008 at 22:44

Apart from the experts always ignore an important detail

How much is earth emitting and how much can earth absorb. Without this important detail then it's worthless making assumptions.
Also the data doesn't have good resolution.
But much more importantly we have no idea what effect it will have, but the chances are that it will not affect is in any major way.

willhub · 10 Aug 2008 at 22:46

Lets face it WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE!!!!!!!!

Dolph · 10 Aug 2008 at 22:55

EsaT said:
Like we say here in Finland...
Take your head out of that place "to where sun doesn't shine".

There is a close correlation between Antarctic temperature and atmospheric concentrations of CO2. The extension of the Vostok CO2 record shows that the main trends of CO2 are similar for each glacial cycle. Major transitions from the lowest to the highest values are associated with glacial-interglacial transitions. During these transitions, the atmospheric concentrations of CO2 rises from 180 to 280-300 ppmv. The extension of the Vostok CO2 record shows the present-day levels of CO2 are unprecedented during the past 420 kyr. Pre-industrial Holocene levels (~280 ppmv) are found during all interglacials, with the highest values (~300 ppmv) found approximately 323 kyr BP.
http://cdiac.ornl.gov/trends/co2/vostok.htm
Mysteriously CO2 concentration started rising same time with industrial revolution and currently we're going around 375ppmv.

Maybe you'll next claim that bullet through head doesn't kill...

Do you have any idea what the sensitivity and resolution of the vostok ice core data is... Here's a hint, previous short term spikes like this one (say several hundred years) simply wouldn't show up in it....

SlyReaper · 10 Aug 2008 at 23:08

Steve2000 said:
It has been scientifically proven many times over that the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere generated by humans is about 0.04%.

I've seen websites claiming that it's been scientifically proven that the Earth is flat. So, could you back that claim up please?

Anyway, back on topic. One thing that people seem to forget is that water vapour is also a potent greenhouse gas. It accounts for between 36% to 70% of the greenhouse effect, whereas CO2 accounts for between 9% to 26%. Linkage. This is actually fairly worrying.

On the one hand, it might seem like a rise in CO2 levels would have a negligible effect on global warming. On the other hand, we are recording rising temperatures whether caused by humans or not. This increases water evaporation and produces a positive feedback to the warming process.

But it's not all bad news. As more water vapour is released into the atmosphere, clouds will form. This will reflect some of the sun's heat away, allowing us to cool down. Of course, if we cool down too much, we might end up with another ice age. But let's worry about that later.

Jet · 10 Aug 2008 at 23:36

With the July 2007 release of the revised statement by the American Association of Petroleum Geologists, no remaining scientific body of national or international standing is known to reject the basic findings of human influence on recent climate.

That said, our government seems to have a pretty rubbish plan to do something about it.

FrostedNipple · 10 Aug 2008 at 23:44

If we eventually have no dependence on the middle east for oil, America really will be the ultimate!

SlyReaper · 10 Aug 2008 at 23:50

FrostedNipple said:
If we eventually have no dependence on the middle east for oil, America really will be the ultimate!

Or not. Most of their economy is dependant on oil. Whereas smaller countries can easily retool for alternative industrial processes, America will have a tough time simply because of how big it is. They'd better hope the transition is gradual rather than abrupt, otherwise they'll really suffer.

That said, they're not all idiots. They must know they can't use oil forever, and must have a back-up plan. Or am I too naive?

FrostedNipple · 10 Aug 2008 at 23:54

SlyReaper said:
Or not. Most of their economy is dependant on oil. Whereas smaller countries can easily retool for alternative industrial processes, America will have a tough time simply because of how big it is. They'd better hope the transition is gradual rather than abrupt, otherwise they'll really suffer.

That said, they're not all idiots. They must know they can't use oil forever, and must have a back-up plan. Or am I too naive?

is our back up plan to open the coal mines again?

Tefal · 10 Aug 2008 at 23:56

FrostedNipple said:
is our back up plan to open the coal mines again?

yep us and the yanks have decades to centuries of coal still in the ground.

Oh and oil will never go away, when we all change to nuclear or what ever, we will still make oil artificially,. Because it's so useful.

platinum87 · 11 Aug 2008 at 00:40

magick said:
If there's really global warming and sea levels are rising, how come seafront/beachfront property in florida still costs millions and UAE are spending billions building aritifical islands that don't seem to acount for rising sea levels?

do a degree in physical geography..

Evidence of man inluenced CO2 goes back to about 8000 Years give or take

starfighter · 11 Aug 2008 at 00:43

I do think it is an excuse to go green, but I don't mind really, don't want to live in a world with no plants animals and smog, also, while I don't buy into peak oil being now, i feel it is only a matter of time, best to be prepared.

I have read a lot of Coal Vs Nuclear debate recently. We have loads of both, I say use em both while they are cheaper than solar/wind. However leaps and bounds are being made in this technology all the time, Battery technology and solar will become a viable option soon. Which could leave Nuclear looking expensive in the long run, but then it is proven and we don't wanna go back to the dark ages.

I also welcome being non reliant on foreigners for power.

magick · 11 Aug 2008 at 00:43

platinum87 said:
do a degree in physical geography

You'r joking right?

magick · 11 Aug 2008 at 00:45

Dolph said:
Because climate change, fundamentally, is a politically driven bogeyman for raising taxes that makes claims based on models that are, at best, far from complete, in a dishonest position that does massive disservice to the rest of the scientific community?

I've suspected this myself. Strange how the super rich that can afford the beach front property are the ones least likely to feel the pinch of 'green taxes'.

magick · 11 Aug 2008 at 00:48

EsaT said:
Like we say here in Finland...
Take your head out of that place "to where sun doesn't shine".

There is a close correlation between Antarctic temperature and atmospheric concentrations of CO2. The extension of the Vostok CO2 record shows that the main trends of CO2 are similar for each glacial cycle. Major transitions from the lowest to the highest values are associated with glacial-interglacial transitions. During these transitions, the atmospheric concentrations of CO2 rises from 180 to 280-300 ppmv. The extension of the Vostok CO2 record shows the present-day levels of CO2 are unprecedented during the past 420 kyr. Pre-industrial Holocene levels (~280 ppmv) are found during all interglacials, with the highest values (~300 ppmv) found approximately 323 kyr BP.
http://cdiac.ornl.gov/trends/co2/vostok.htm
Mysteriously CO2 concentration started rising same time with industrial revolution and currently we're going around 375ppmv.

Maybe you'll next claim that bullet through head doesn't kill...

Fibre_Optic said:
Finally some sense!!
Global Warming DOES exist and practically all respected experts in the field agree this now!!
But I guess the OC's armchair experts know something these people who have been studying this all their life don't? I suggest you let them know so that they can stop making idiots of themselves

Just remember that many of these scientists are being funded by the government. And if you'r a scientist and want next years funding you better sing the governments song.

magick · 11 Aug 2008 at 00:49

platinum87 said:
do a degree in physical geography..

Evidence of man inluenced CO2 goes back to about 8000 Years give or take

So are you saying those beachfront properties are safe?

platinum87 · 11 Aug 2008 at 01:00

magick said:
So are you saying those beachfront properties are safe?

i wouldnt buy them

and learn to multiquote!

magick said:
Just remember that many of these scientists are being funded by the government. And if you'r a scientist and want next years funding you better sing the governments song.

governments want to deny global warming, or atleast the USA does you just need to turn 98degrees to the right

[TW]Fox · 11 Aug 2008 at 01:04

Fibre_Optic said:
Finally some sense!!
Global Warming DOES exist and practically all respected experts in the field agree this now!!

I'm glad you are on the right wavelength!!!! It's about time we realised how serous this is.

Thousands of years ago this planet was in the middle of an ice age. Then, all the ice melted. Why?

BECUASE HUMANS IN 4000 BC HAD RANGE ROVERS AND COAL FIRED POWER STATIONS. Nothing to do with natural cycle.

platinum87 · 11 Aug 2008 at 01:09

[TW]Fox;12258653 said:
I'm glad you are on the right wavelength!!!! It's about time we realised how serous this is.

Thousands of years ago this planet was in the middle of an ice age. Then, all the ice melted. Why?

BECUASE HUMANS IN 4000 BC HAD RANGE ROVERS AND COAL FIRED POWER STATIONS. Nothing to do with natural cycle.

ice melted normally, but co2 started increasing due to the domestication of plants @ 4000bc