IFS: Home ownership has collapsed...

[Uther]

As I would make a guess that not so long ago middle earners would quite possibly be traditional Conservative voters I wonder how much longer the government will continue to fiddle around the edges of the housing crisis in the UK...
https://news.sky.com/story/home-ownership-has-collapsed-among-middle-earners-ifs-11252571

 

[Semple]

Is part of the problem also the fact that the UK is running out of room for building more houses?

You've got large parts of land with green belt status, and then there's all the NIMBY's. People will also only buy houses within a good distance of things like transport links, retail, schools and places to work. It's all well and good building houses out in the middle of nowhere if no-one wants to live there.

 

[Ayahuasca]

Heard this on the radio on the way to work, that level of change should be alarming but I can't say I was surprised by it.

 

[VincentHanna]

Is part of the problem also the fact that the UK is running out of room for building more houses?

You've got large parts of land with green belt status, and then there's all the NIMBY's. People will also only buy houses within a good distance of things like transport links, retail, schools and places to work. It's all well and good building houses out in the middle of nowhere if no-one wants to live there.

Not sure about that, there's 100's of houses that have gone up near me recently, none are what I would call affordable.

I live in one of the top 20 least affordable cities in the UK, House prices here are 8 times higher than the average salary.

From 2007 to 2017, house prices went up by 54% (from 225K to 350K) which is more than double the national average.

 

[paradigm]

I'm certain a lot of the reason for the drop in ownership has to do with changes in mentality as well as the "simple" reasons touted (such as price rises being massively higher than the rate which salaries have increased).

 

[MikeTheNative]

Is part of the problem also the fact that the UK is running out of room for building more houses?

You've got large parts of land with green belt status, and then there's all the NIMBY's. People will also only buy houses within a good distance of things like transport links, retail, schools and places to work. It's all well and good building houses out in the middle of nowhere if no-one wants to live there.

I work in construction and there's loads of new sites going up. As said above the problem is that they are 4 beds with 5 en-suites to maximise profit for the developer. Yes they have to put in a certain percentage of 'affordable' housing but it's not enough.

 

[Wizzkidy]

I'm in Hertfordshire and they are building loads of houses around here, I did have to laugh when I saw new ones going up in the center of hitchin and starting prices were from £550,000 lol

 

[Semple]

I work in construction and there's loads of new sites going up. As said above the problem is that they are 4 beds with 5 en-suites to maximise profit for the developer. Yes they have to put in a certain percentage of 'affordable' housing but it's not enough.

Interesting. I guess the problem is with the perception that "affordable housing" means housing for the poor. Whereas now "affordable housing" would literally suit a young professional couple who could be earning £60k+ between them. I guess this would only change if the government mandate that at least 50-75% of houses built on a site are within an "affordable bracket".

 

[Freakbro]

What changes in mentality is that?

 

[Dis86]

I work in construction and there's loads of new sites going up. As said above the problem is that they are 4 beds with 5 en-suites to maximise profit for the developer. Yes they have to put in a certain percentage of 'affordable' housing but it's not enough.

We have issues round here where the expensive houses won't sell because they're next to affordable. Who wants to spend 500k to live next door to a 100k house with council tenants in It?

 

[matt100]

I'd say it's pretty obvious.. the 2000s boom in crazy multiples by lenders leading to too much of the population exposed to ANY drop in value.

I mean prices ought to just be stagnating but things like help to buy are pouring petrol on a fire.. it's blatantly obvious that it's not sustainable yet we persist in finding ways to perpetuate the pricing we've got now.

That and the entirely human instinct to gather wealth leading to "increasing value" int he roof over your head being a primary motivator for people rather than just having a "house" as we used to call them.

I'll be honest, I don't see a way out.. we can't have a crash, we can't continue like this...

I think the only sensible way out is government stepping in and actually building houses rather than propping up the mortgage market and basically forcing the market into a managed stagnation.

But that'll never happen because your average person is greedy and wants their house to go up in "value" totally ignorant to the fact that every other house necessarily has to go up to support such a rise.

Humans..

oh and.. in before "immagrunts"

 

[PlacidCasual]

Buy To Let typically targets the same portion of the market as first time buyers. The massive inflation in credit availability in the nineties and noughties which was most available to older people has allowed house pricing to decouple from it's historic position to it current position.

Given that we haven't been building enough housing for a long time to meet demand and the large increase in population caused by inward migration of millions over the last 2 decades this is no surprise.

I didn't buy my own first house until I was 36 with a rather fat deposit and the incomes of two good salaries. As it happens we're now accidental BTL landlords ourselves, because when w reclocated for work we had enough deposit to buy a second home to move into and fear of being priced out of our old location (Oxfordshire) meant we wanted to keep what we had rather than sell for a smaller mortgage in the new location.

I do think we should be more open minded to greenbelt building as we plainly have to build near the existing towns and cities as that is where the work is.

 

[LOAM]

I'm in Hertfordshire and they are building loads of houses around here, I did have to laugh when I saw new ones going up in the center of hitchin and starting prices were from £550,000 lol

Nationals ignore affordable housing legislation because they can remove the condition with unpublished and un-scrutinised viability assessments, post planning approval. They mean nothing to developers who can afford 50k up front for a QS to fudge the numbers using single one off build cost figures from spons and tell the planners it's not viable to build 20% of the site as affordable.

We have a housing crisis because the nationals maintain a "healthy" market for themselves and very little other reason.

 

[antijoke]

Interesting. I guess the problem is with the perception that "affordable housing" means housing for the poor. Whereas now "affordable housing" would literally suit a young professional couple who could be earning £60k+ between them. I guess this would only change if the government mandate that at least 50-75% of houses built on a site are within an "affordable bracket".

But around here there are requirements that when the land is sold for development that x% are "affordable" (lol) homes yet when they are up and built there is 0% that are "affordable" they are all luxurious homes.

I'd say it's pretty obvious.. the 2000s boom in crazy multiples by lenders leading to too much of the population exposed to ANY drop in value.

I mean prices ought to just be stagnating but things like help to buy are pouring petrol on a fire.. it's blatantly obvious that it's not sustainable yet we persist in finding ways to perpetuate the pricing we've got now.

That and the entirely human instinct to gather wealth leading to "increasing value" int he roof over your head being a primary motivator for people rather than just having a "house" as we used to call them.

I'll be honest, I don't see a way out.. we can't have a crash, we can't continue like this...

I think the only sensible way out is government stepping in and actually building houses rather than propping up the mortgage market and basically forcing the market into a managed stagnation.

But that'll never happen because your average person is greedy and wants their house to go up in "value" totally ignorant to the fact that every other house necessarily has to go up to support such a rise.

Humans..

oh and.. in before "immagrunts"

Agreed with you there too, the market has had too much manipulation from help to buy schemes and now the government will not allow it to bottom out and implode.

 

[MikeTheNative]

We have issues round here where the expensive houses won't sell because they're next to affordable. Who wants to spend 500k to live next door to a 100k house with council tenants in It?

People who aren't snobbish? It's funny though that with the big house builders that 500K house is built the to the same standard as the 100k house, sometimes a bit worse as some of the HA's can be quite picky.

 

[MikeTheNative]

But around here there are requirements that when the land is sold for development that x% are "affordable" (lol) homes yet when they are up and built there is 0% that are "affordable" they are all luxurious homes.



Agreed with you there too, the market has had too much manipulation from help to buy schemes and now the government will not allow it to bottom out and implode.

What are you on about? Why can't that single mum working a normal job afford that 5 bed detached house?

 

[francky]

People who aren't snobbish? It's funny though that with the big house builders that 500K house is built the to the same standard as the 100k house, sometimes a bit worse as some of the HA's can be quite picky.

Not sure its to do with being snobish.....ive recently (2 years ago) bought a house near to 500K on a new estate, for which there is a large amount of council at one end of the estate, being a new development and as an example, over Xmas lots of the houses had their Xmas lights either stolen or smahed up by the kids/teenagers from the council houses......there seem to be a constant police presense around that part from all the 101 companints and the facebook group for the estate is contantly posting about issues with them...so is it really snobbish to not want to live near people like that? I dont think so....my next house will not be on a new development.

 

[Wizzkidy]

Nationals ignore affordable housing legislation because they can remove the condition with unpublished and un-scrutinised viability assessments, post planning approval. They mean nothing to developers who can afford 50k up front for a QS to fudge the numbers using single one off build cost figures from spons and tell the planners it's not viable to build 20% of the site as affordable.

We have a housing crisis because the nationals maintain a "healthy" market for themselves and very little other reason.

Are we basically saying here that the rich get everything on a plate and the poor people get shafted? Sounds the norm really doesn't it?

If they can fudge the numbers and not actually provide that 20% of affordable homes then how the hell can any "normal" hard working person ever move forward in life? I would think purchasing a house is "stepping stone" to moving up in the world, if anything to leave it for your children not maybe to sell but just have somewhere to live mortgage free at some stage of life!? Am I being stupid thinking this?

 

[paradigm]

What changes in mentality is that?

The changes that appear to show the new younger generation are far more likely to value possessions and tech/gadgets as the commodities they most want to own. That and the freely available credit terms that are now available on everything from £1200 phones through to £100 dishwashers mean that people generally "buy" more things at "low" monthly rates, rather than save.

The upshot being that these people never amass any savings, to put towards anything, let alone houses.

 

[XeNoN89]

I'll be able to just about to buy my own place if i get an about £10k pay rise