Impact of (possible) decline of gaming on Windows use?

Most of you lot are missing my point- All of this is in my opinion :eek: The original Windows comment was far more in my experience than anything else, might have been clearer in the thread I linked to?
Anyway, another extremely major reason why Windows is at its current size is because of the preinstall factor- It comes on pretty much every prebuilt machine. If Linux came on all of these machines, and had for the same length of time, we would be having this discussion about it, and the same for OSX. Its a sad fact that Windows is the only OS the vast majority of people will have learnt on, and this means they will be biased towards it.

NathanE- Its certainly possible for a user mode application to cause a full-on BSOD. Now I don't pretend to understand how most of either the Windows or for that matter Linux kernel works, but its entirely possible for apps which run in user mode to kill off the system. Yes, in theory it shouldn't, but if it hits a bug or something, its perfectly possible. Even a simple memory leak can kill off the system if its not noticed, and thats perfectly possible in user mode. Many of these crashes may depend on certain conditions being met, but how else would a crash occur? By magic? (IE. Memory leak with a manual page file size, can easily cause a BSOD when Windows simply runs out of memory)

Linux drivers- What would you call a kernel module, if not a driver? Where are you trying to make the distinction?
As for having to call a segfault if a driver crashes, not true, but it does depend on precisely the driver & the nature of the crash. Segfaulting is accessing invalid memory location IIRC, and this is certainly not the cause of all crashes. Again, I'm not totally privy to the inner workings of the kernel, but in the recent past, I've crashed TV card drivers, the Nvidia driver & a couple of others. The Nvidia driver killed off the X-Server and dumped me on the console, the TV card driver killed the app I was trying to use at the time, but neither killed the system completely.
Its certainly possible to set the whole system up to segfault when something crashes, but it should be somewhere in the kernel config options, and does not necessarily come as default. Remeber, the sole use for Linux is not mission critical systems where data should be protected at all costs :rolleyes:

-Leezer-
 
leezer3 said:
(IE. Memory leak with a manual page file size, can easily cause a BSOD when Windows simply runs out of memory)
Sure about that? Bearing in mind XP ignores the manual pagefile size if it needs to, takes over and sets its own size to avoid running out of memory. The only way XP can run out of memory is if there isn't enough HDD space left :p
 
dirtydog said:
Exposé, which is most certainly not the same as 'show desktop' is on Windows :)

Would you prefer if it was called "Show Desktop"? It does exactly the same thing, with the exception of the behaviour that you get after you're done with seeing the desktop. Is this the sticking point?
 
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leezer3 said:
Most of you lot are missing my point- All of this is in my opinion :eek: The original Windows comment was far more in my experience than anything else, might have been clearer in the thread I linked to?
Anyway, another extremely major reason why Windows is at its current size is because of the preinstall factor- It comes on pretty much every prebuilt machine.

If it was any good, it would be preinstalled on computers, also companys like Dell \ PCWORLD wouldnt bother to spend money on training there staff to learn Linux.

Linux has got no chance to become mainstream because its

simply not good enough yet
too hard to use for the normal person

IF it does somehow get mainstream in the next 30 years, maybe it will boost IT Support wages up by a mile, if that is the case, im all for it!!
 
FishThrower said:
If it was any good, it would be preinstalled on computers, also companys like Dell \ PCWORLD wouldnt bother to spend money on training there staff to learn Linux.

Linux has got no chance to become mainstream because its

simply not good enough yet
too hard to use for the normal person

Exactly. IF it was good enough, and it still isn't. More people would be putting it on pre installed pc's.

Like I said. Linux has its place. Its not on the desktop pc.
 
Caged said:
Would you prefer if it was called "Show Desktop"? It does exactly the same thing, with the exception of the behaviour that you get after you're done with seeing the desktop. Is this the sticking point?
There's a big difference between the two :) Show Desktop minimises all windows and gives you access to the desktop. On OS X, if you want that you have to bugger about manually minimising all of the windows individually :eek:
 
It depends what you want to do, if it's just grab something off the desktop then F11 shoves all the windows off the side of the screen and lets you do that. If for whatever reason you want everything hidden to the dock, then Finder > Hide Others will do that, and leave you with the desktop.

Show Desktop is more of a button for "Minimise All", whereas the desktop Exposé mode is a toggle. I can't think of any situation where you'd need more access to the desktop than Exposé can give though :confused:.
 
Caged said:
I can't think of any situation where you'd need more access to the desktop than Exposé can give though :confused:.
I can - it gives you access to My Computer plus I regularly put folders, shortcuts, downloaded files etc on the desktop - plus in Windows the desktop gives you access to other functions such as Display Properties. Exposé just ain't the same thing and whenever I've used OSX it has frustrated me.
 
Hades said:
Thought about that. But I'm not discussing games. I'm discussing whether people would use Windows if games were NOT an issue :) Otherwise I'd just get a lot of people saying Windows is essential, etc.

I think I wouldn't, I even thought about geting win4bsd when I get PC-BSD. That one the PC-BSD site had a article about, but that would prob. be a pain really.
 
dirtydog said:
I can - it gives you access to My Computer plus I regularly put folders, shortcuts, downloaded files etc on the desktop - plus in Windows the desktop gives you access to other functions such as Display Properties. Exposé just ain't the same thing and whenever I've used OSX it has frustrated me.

You realise there's three modes of Exposé don't you?

http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/expose/

I'm talking about the F11 desktop mode, which lets you bring up the desktop context menu, and interact with all the objects on the desktop.
 
And likewise I can't get along with Show Desktop, it doesn't (reliably) bring all the windows back how they were. There's always a few apps which won't work.
 
FishThrower said:
If it was any good, it would be preinstalled on computers, also companys like Dell \ PCWORLD wouldnt bother to spend money on training there staff to learn Linux.

Linux has got no chance to become mainstream because its

simply not good enough yet
too hard to use for the normal person

IF it does somehow get mainstream in the next 30 years, maybe it will boost IT Support wages up by a mile, if that is the case, im all for it!!

Being frank here (And this may sound like a flame), that is simply the most god-awful rot I've ever heard.
The market situation has NOTHING to do with the relavant strenghts and weaknesses of the different OSs. The whole and simple fact of the matter is that a Windows box is the only thing most people will see & use, simply due to Windows prevalance in the market. Therefore, this brings into action a vicious circle, whereby there is no incentive to train techs/ salespeople on Linux or any other OS because there is no demand for it from the desktop market. The lack of promotion then causes more people to use computers and think Windows is the only OS, and the circle goes on. If Linux was swapped with Windows, the position would be exactly the same.

Think of it this way- How many real n00bs (In other words, people who probably will not even have found this forum) think that Windows is the specs of your PC?

-Leezer-
 
I'd never use Linux because it doesn't have MegaMan Effect.app. At least if I had to use Windows I'd be able to use the ported version :p
 
leezer3 said:
Pretty certain. Haven't got any of my own BSODs to hand (Why would I :p ), but Windows Live messenger was certainly doing this for a while; Blog post on the subject:
http://blog.plaxoed.com/2006/07/17/memory-leak-in-windows-live-messenger/

Was intended as more of an example of how a user mode application can kill the system though.

-Leezer-
Right...? So a program has a memory leak? Big deal. It's not going to crash the system. Might make it run a bit slow but nothing more.

I'll say this again... it is technically impossible for a user-mode application with no direct calls into the kernel to cause a BSOD. Even if it tries to use up all memory, Windows will simply start denying its attempts to gain any more memory once it reaches 2GB (actually it could very well start denying requests way before the 2GB limit but that's another thread).
 
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Hades said:
Thought about that. But I'm not discussing games. I'm discussing whether people would use Windows if games were NOT an issue Otherwise I'd just get a lot of people saying Windows is essential, etc.

No because they still know windows inside out and as I said before would still ant windows for the media. Mp3s avi's dvd's bit torrent ect ect.

Most people would simply change from xp to WMC
 
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