there.. somoene who actually has a clue has posted .
thanks for posting
Yeah cheers Bro
Importance of A-Levels
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Yeah cheers Bro
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My point is that if a company specifically asks for 300 UCAS points, that's what they want... although if you had over 300 UCAS points like krisboats, but not great grades they'd obviously toss your application away. Im talking pure graduate jobs btw
I got ABC at A level and an E at AS-level... think that is 320 points which thankfully gets me through pretty much all A level requirements for jobs... just a shame I got a 2.2.
To answer the original post, for most graduate schemes, lets say 80% of them, A levels do matter... at smaller/medium sized firms they generally only look for a 2.2/2.1 at degree... but a lot say "and good A levels in Maths and English" or something like that.
Anyway, even if you got total crap A levels... there is always an option and route to the top
btw my eyes have scanned at least 1000 job advertisments in the last few months, so I know what i'm talking about
I got ABC at A level and an E at AS-level... think that is 320 points which thankfully gets me through pretty much all A level requirements for jobs... just a shame I got a 2.2.
To answer the original post, for most graduate schemes, lets say 80% of them, A levels do matter... at smaller/medium sized firms they generally only look for a 2.2/2.1 at degree... but a lot say "and good A levels in Maths and English" or something like that.
Anyway, even if you got total crap A levels... there is always an option and route to the top
btw my eyes have scanned at least 1000 job advertisments in the last few months, so I know what i'm talking about
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Hmm interesting point there... You have good A levels, but not being rude, not the best of degree grades in terms of what employers want.
When writing applications, did you mention the E? or did you just say that you had achieved 320 UCAS points? because if I count my E at AS, then i'm at 320 as well.
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yeah I fully know it's a terrible degree mark for graduate employment, and im severely struggling right now with job applications (fingers crossed for my job interview tomorrow).
I've found though that my Uni (Warwick) and degree course (Physics) have got me through the door on several interviews though. Let's just say that at 3 interviews i've been to, i've gone to the highest rank Uni and did the toughest course out of anybody there... but i'm pretty much the only guy with a 2:2 in the room.
I used to keep my E at AS in there, but i've recently removed it from my CV and now never bring it up. Most employers ask for 300 UCAS points rather than 320 so It's not really an issue for me. I've seen several that ask for 320, but they usually ask for 2.1s too... so I don't apply.
With a 2:2 you are restricted to about 1/3 of all graduate jobs... so annoying, but I guess it's my own fault.
You do realise that A-Levels aren't the be all and end all of someone's ability, right?
You do nothing but scaremonger when it comes to threads like this and it's pathetic. You need to realise that just because somebody did badly in their A-Levels, it does not immediately make them a failure or you superior in anyway. I do wonder how much life experience you have, as this is not the first time you've posted such dribble. It seems like you've had it pretty cosy by the sounds of things.
Some posters seem to echo that of a bourgeoisie society. It's just a shame that such a pretence still exists in this day and age.
i don't know if this poster has previous form but his points are valid and it is you that is devoid of life experience. in short you are equating success and failure on the ability to get what i and i think this poster are detailing the top graduate jobs. doing badly in a levels does not make them a failure but it does limit your options. i often wonder if people know the distinction between graduate jobs and jobs that graduates fill. if there is previous with the poster then i understand but your points are poor in the sole attempt to impress the point of the cosy life of the poster...
a levels are ability - this relationship does not matter -- it is about procedure and perception.
these views are not scaremongering, rather a service. on a number of levels -- if you want to be a high flying city banker the CHANCES are you will need top a levels and a degree from a red brick. if you want a great managerial career in any capacity then a levels are less important.
it is your view that taints reality in my opinion. too many people take too black and white a view. understand the variation in context and depth of graduate jobs.
ps this thread is raising some good points and hopefully some things of use to people. the overall message to people should be careful what jobs you target.
His logic is valid, sure. His point that the top employers want good A-levels is also sound, but you're completely missing his underlying pretence, which you would understand if you had debated this issue with him before.
Of course it does, I never said it didn't - but there is a difference between blind scaremongering and casual observation. I'm not comparing success to failure either, so don't get ahead of yourself. I'm asserting that as far as both academic ability and other go; A-Levels are not the be-all-and-end-all of the matter. Someone who obtains a 1st yet has poor A-Levels still has academic ability and it is unfair to tarnish them simply because of an inconsistent past. Why do you think Oxbridge are only interested in the final year of someone's degree when applying for post-grad?
Again, see my earlier point. It's no secret that those with more humble beginnings or those with more 'life experience' are more often, usually less bigoted in such matters.
What about extenuating circumstances? Oh wait, A-Levels are the final say on the matter, my apologies.
Why is it? I understand it perfectly fine, but I also understand that academic ability can be measured in more ways then through a written test taken by a hormonal teenager.
feeling pretence is of course a personal opinion so i applaud your ability to really get to the root and 'underlying' meaning of what everyone says. i do understand, however, that he might be baiting you and playing a role so to speak.
it is not necessarily blind scaremongering though to be fair. i can only speak for myself (which is something perhaps you should do also?) but i have more than enough experience and knoweldge to be putting forward this side. you need to look beyond the conventional taught logic that instills natural images of success for all uni students.
i never said that a levels are the be all and end all, rather they are a stage on the conventional route. that someone with a first and poor a levels would FAIL in normal application procedures over most of the time for milkground vacancies. that does not suggest he is a poor student and indeed he will often take a slight detour to meet his ambitions.
wow such a generalisation... with such terms that are so relative. i get the impression you are implying at having more life experience... an interesting proposition.
such clinical pigeonholing... just because i do not say something does not mean that i subscribe to the contrary! application procedures have a facilty for such circumstances as i am sure you know.
which underlines where i think you are getting the issue mixed up. believe me i am not endorsing a levels as any indicator as you intimate. however, i do suggest their importance to the type of jobs i outlined. the issue is about ability rather the graduate jobs market. the link is not as you seem to think... the best do not necessarily get into the best jobs etc... a little thing called life nix.
I can only post from my personal experience but here goes. I am a Mechanical Engineer currently working at a small engineering consultant that design/optimises centrifugal compressor trains.
Now I only got 2A-levels and 2AS-Level none, iirc i got
Physics C
Maths D
AS RMT D
AS IT D.
Fortunately I got offered an interview with the dean of engineering a the university of Liverpool and got in, finally graduated with a 2:1. Now my UCAS score is something really pathetic, in fact I never even bothered to work it out, as it’s so low.
Now I have spoken to a lot of Principle Engineers at a lot of companies and they do not care about qualifications, as they do not make a good employee. Often the HR and other managers will specify the required grades. Which is one of the main reasons I am now working at a smaller company. This worked out better for me in the long run, but did involve landing on my feet and running, but fortunately I am a quick learner.
When I started, 2 weeks before me an Oxford graduate with 5A’s at A level and a 1st Masters in Engineering had started. I was worried at first as I thought he might be clever than myself and so show me up. What I learned then was that the book smart types who can cram information in and get these higher do not (necessarily) make the best employee’s as this guy was useless. He completely lacked the ability to solve problems that he hadn’t seen before and would take hours to soak up even the most simple of knowledge.
Plus A-Levels are kind of a joke to count when someone has a degree. I looked through some physics and maths exams and they are a easy now.
edt: the only thing i will add is, that i always wished that i worked a lot harder whilst back at school. I never did any homework or coursework and it did make things a lot harder in the long run.
Now I only got 2A-levels and 2AS-Level none, iirc i got
Physics C
Maths D
AS RMT D
AS IT D.
Fortunately I got offered an interview with the dean of engineering a the university of Liverpool and got in, finally graduated with a 2:1. Now my UCAS score is something really pathetic, in fact I never even bothered to work it out, as it’s so low.
Now I have spoken to a lot of Principle Engineers at a lot of companies and they do not care about qualifications, as they do not make a good employee. Often the HR and other managers will specify the required grades. Which is one of the main reasons I am now working at a smaller company. This worked out better for me in the long run, but did involve landing on my feet and running, but fortunately I am a quick learner.
When I started, 2 weeks before me an Oxford graduate with 5A’s at A level and a 1st Masters in Engineering had started. I was worried at first as I thought he might be clever than myself and so show me up. What I learned then was that the book smart types who can cram information in and get these higher do not (necessarily) make the best employee’s as this guy was useless. He completely lacked the ability to solve problems that he hadn’t seen before and would take hours to soak up even the most simple of knowledge.
Plus A-Levels are kind of a joke to count when someone has a degree. I looked through some physics and maths exams and they are a easy now.
edt: the only thing i will add is, that i always wished that i worked a lot harder whilst back at school. I never did any homework or coursework and it did make things a lot harder in the long run.
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Nix I post what I do because I believe Alevels are important. At no stage do I say you won't get a job if you have bad Alevels. I'm pointing out they are used by many companies for selection purposes, I have backed-up my arguement with examples of leading UK companies who do so.
I suspect there are many 16-18 year olds on this forum, and they want an honest answer as to the importance of Alevels. The answer is that you should work hard at every stage of your academic career, and Alevels happen to be one of the most important academic qualifications.
Post saying "Alevels don't matter" just encourages people not to give 100% at their Alevels. This is the wrong attitude I think.
My "previous" on these threads is always to stress the importance of qualifications. I'm not saying people with good Alevels are "better" than those without, but how else can we compare people based on a CV, now you might not believe this Nix, but in the real world the quality of academic qualifications on your CV be the turning point that gets your CV away from the bin and nearer that first interview.
I have no underlying pretence, and if you get that from my posts you're very mistaken
No-one has shown me an advert from a major employer saying "we want candidates with poor Alevels please".
For those of you with poor Alevels this isn't the end of the world, but it is likely you'll need to work harder for positions that those with good degrees and a good degree will walk into.
I suspect there are many 16-18 year olds on this forum, and they want an honest answer as to the importance of Alevels. The answer is that you should work hard at every stage of your academic career, and Alevels happen to be one of the most important academic qualifications.
Post saying "Alevels don't matter" just encourages people not to give 100% at their Alevels. This is the wrong attitude I think.
My "previous" on these threads is always to stress the importance of qualifications. I'm not saying people with good Alevels are "better" than those without, but how else can we compare people based on a CV, now you might not believe this Nix, but in the real world the quality of academic qualifications on your CV be the turning point that gets your CV away from the bin and nearer that first interview.
I have no underlying pretence, and if you get that from my posts you're very mistaken
No-one has shown me an advert from a major employer saying "we want candidates with poor Alevels please".
For those of you with poor Alevels this isn't the end of the world, but it is likely you'll need to work harder for positions that those with good degrees and a good degree will walk into.
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Actually certain firms have ALevel results filters, many I-Banks for example filter out anyone below ABB.
[TW]Fox;9984500 said:
This may well be the case with placements, since they have no final grade to go on meaning that your UCAS points are the most up-to-date official, complete qualification.
However it rarely works like this for jobs in general - I'm one of the strange breed with a pretty good set of A-levels (AAB) but a very poor degree. The only saving grace is that sometimes you can use strong A-level results to illustrate that maybe a suspect degree classification was not indicative of your true academic potential. However I (honestly) believe that I would be better off without a degree as my GCSE/A-level results look much more impressive and would lead people to assume that I would be capable of a 2nd class degree.
My view is that A-levels are important if you specifically need them to get into a particular job/vocation (say, Accountancy), but generally speaking graduate jobs look at your degree first and non-graduate jobs look at your experience.
Oh wow, you changed your tone.
For the last time, I'm not debating this issue. It's obvious that better grades put you in better stead. What I am arguing, which 'freshy' has just conceded to, is the fact that A-Levels are not the absolute when it comes to someone's academic potential or ability. Someone with a first class degree clearly has academic ability, it's completely misguided to devalue them due to a rather irrelevant past of poor A-Levels.
To be fair Nix, I think the only person who was arguing that higher a-level grades were the most important indicator of academic potential was Vedic.
DAVEM hasn't strictly said he thinks the top graduate employers are right to have the high UCAS point requirement, just that they do have them.
DAVEM hasn't strictly said he thinks the top graduate employers are right to have the high UCAS point requirement, just that they do have them.
That probably is true. I lost track from whom the debate originated from and haven't really gone back to check.
DaveM has explained himself so there's no need to defend him. I've given him the benefit of the doubt.
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not really pal, i just made a point to clarify your obvious lack of comprehension of the issue or confusion on the topic.
seems like you are on a bit of a crusade here but simply conceding in a poor tone as you constantly do is a very poor way of countering valid points.
to summise, high a level grades are not important if you have them - once you have them you can forget the fact and work on the other aspects of your application - but you have to have them so to speak.
losing track of the debate underlines your position nix and highlights your incompetance in replyng to posts with a purpose and understansing of the issues at hand.
are you a student by any chance?