In need of a networking god !

darkcooleo · 23 Oct 2009 at 17:00

Ok, here i go. I have a bit of a complicated setup. I'm on bt with a adsl connection, i've recentley upgraded all my networking kit. I went for a cable router because i wanted the built in Bittorrent client feature and the GB lan.

buffalo wzr-hp-g300nh

http://www.buffalotech.com/products...high-power-router-access-point-wzr-hp-g300nh/

Because this is a cable router, i obviously needed a ADSL modem, currentley i'm using this netgear which is plugged into the internet port of the buffalo. Ive disabled the firewall on the netgear and the wireless.

Netgear gd834 v5

http://www.netgear.co.uk/wireless_adslrouter_dg834g.php

The problem i am having is i'm getting really slow download speeds on the torrent client of the buffalo, around 5kbps. Internet browsing is fine and so are browser file downloads. Looked at port forwarding but on the buffalo is quite complicated and i don't know if the netgear is blocking ports also.

Really do need help on this one, any suggestions would be great. Thanks

Azuse05 · 23 Oct 2009 at 17:21

Did you actually bridge the gd or simply turn off features?

darkcooleo · 23 Oct 2009 at 17:25

Azuse05 said:
Did you actually bridge the gd or simply turn off features?

Thank you very much for your reply, i turned off features. Should i bridge it? and sorry to ask but what does this mean exackly ?, i've heard of it but never done it.

TrX · 23 Oct 2009 at 20:35

Home ADSL/Cable routers do something called PNAT, Port network address translation, which allows you to have multiple internal clients (all on LOCAL, non internet routable addresses ranges such as 192.168.1.x) to access the internet simultaniously, even though your ISP may only provide you with one internet routable IP address (such as 213.87.55.x).

Turning the Netgear into a bridge would disable this PNAT, converting it from an ADSL router into pretty much an ADSL to Ethernet converter, the LAN port on the Netgear would then simply be an ethernet cable with the WAN IP (213.87.55.x or whatever) presented on the end of it, which could be plugged into the WAN port of the Buffalo.

This would mean the buffalo received an internet IP where it was expecting one, instead of an already natted internal address from the Netgear.

If this was setup, the rest of your network would hang off the LAN ports on the buffalo (as the LAN ports on the netgear are now nothing but a presentation of the WAN IP address).

The buffalo in a bridged setup would then be in use as it expects to be, just as if there were a cable modem in front of it instead of a ADSL to ethernet bridge.

Saying that, this may not resolve your issue, as there is a small percent chance that it is bittorrent throttleing by your ISP or even a bad torrent/tracker that is causing the speed issues.

After all this, a quick google has revealed that the gd834 does not support bridging. Hope it has helped you understand the difference anyway.

PS.. "I have a bit of a complicated setup"...
I wouldnt worry about it:
http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18047190&page=5

Good luck in the quest for more torrented bits! ;P

//TrX

darkcooleo · 24 Oct 2009 at 00:28

TrX said:
Home ADSL/Cable routers do something called PNAT, Port network address translation, which allows you to have multiple internal clients (all on LOCAL, non internet routable addresses ranges such as 192.168.1.x) to access the internet simultaniously, even though your ISP may only provide you with one internet routable IP address (such as 213.87.55.x).

Turning the Netgear into a bridge would disable this PNAT, converting it from an ADSL router into pretty much an ADSL to Ethernet converter, the LAN port on the Netgear would then simply be an ethernet cable with the WAN IP (213.87.55.x or whatever) presented on the end of it, which could be plugged into the WAN port of the Buffalo.

This would mean the buffalo received an internet IP where it was expecting one, instead of an already natted internal address from the Netgear.

If this was setup, the rest of your network would hang off the LAN ports on the buffalo (as the LAN ports on the netgear are now nothing but a presentation of the WAN IP address).

The buffalo in a bridged setup would then be in use as it expects to be, just as if there were a cable modem in front of it instead of a ADSL to ethernet bridge.

Saying that, this may not resolve your issue, as there is a small percent chance that it is bittorrent throttleing by your ISP or even a bad torrent/tracker that is causing the speed issues.

After all this, a quick google has revealed that the gd834 does not support bridging. Hope it has helped you understand the difference anyway.

PS.. "I have a bit of a complicated setup"...
I wouldnt worry about it:
http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18047190&page=5

Good luck in the quest for more torrented bits! ;P

//TrX

Firstly i cannot thank you enought for you help and secondly, OMG your setup is emmense ! I sadly admit i would not know where to start.

Ok, i've tried it on multipe torrents and i'm getting 0.3kb download with a 40kb upload - i know its my fault and my setup. Where can i go from here? i also have a linksys wag354g and a BT home hub v2 (good old scrape of the barrel) can any of those 2 be configured to work with my setup? OR what would i need to buy to do a proper job and get my download speeds back? because at somepoint i'm going to need to open ports for gaming and other uses so i might aswell get it sorted now. Thanks again.

Mantaray · 25 Oct 2009 at 13:23

ok .... first off ..... ADSL << problem 1 ...... use the bt home hub v2 ...... get a gigabyte switch plug all your comps in to that ..then plug that into the bt home hub....get gigabyte network cards (not the cheap nasty small 1s, am talking 15 pounds each ones) and cat5(e) cables,,,,,, wasting your time with just cat5 if u going gigabyte

there are network storage devices with the bit-torrent built in that are gigabyte,with the option to add more storage space and faster sata2 hdds , so u can transfer the files at gigabyte throw the network ... making the 1gig files .. a lot faster

and giving u the full use of your gigabyte network ..

having 2 routers ...will be like 2 taps on a hose pipe,,,or,, first router will be arguing with other router thinking its a modem
and u will get better download speeds on a pc than a router with it built in

problem 1 ASDL << u probs have no choice with there been no virgin media in your area
problem 2 second router
problem 3 the router with bit torrent built in will look like a seeder box to the isp,as it will be on 24/7 ... ( not gud )

DRZ · 25 Oct 2009 at 13:37

Mantaray said:
ok .... first off ..... ADSL << problem 1 ...... use the bt home hub v2 ...... get a gigabyte switch plug all your comps in to that ..then plug that into the bt home hub....get gigabyte network cards (not the cheap nasty small 1s, am talking 15 pounds each ones) and cat5(e) cables,,,,,, wasting your time with just cat5 if u going gigabyte

there are network storage devices with the bit-torrent built in that are gigabyte,with the option to add more storage space and faster sata2 hdds , so u can transfer the files at gigabyte throw the network ... making the 1gig files .. a lot faster and giving u the full use of your gigabyte network ..

having 2 routers ...will be like 2 taps on a hose pipe,,,or,, first router will be arguing with other router thinking its a modem
and u will get better download speeds on a pc than a router with it built in

problem 1 ASDL << u probs have no choice with there been no virgin media in your area
problem 2 second router
problem 3 the router with bit torrent built in will look like a seeder box to the isp,as it will be on 24/7 ... ( not gud )

What?

Aside from the illiteracy of that post, most of it is ill-informed at best.

If you want to do this properly purchase a Linksys AM200 and stick that into bridge mode to replace the DG834.

P.S. The post that TrX linked to is of my network (the second image was our shared network when we shared a house).

tolien · 25 Oct 2009 at 13:39

As suggested you need to try and get the DG834 to work in bridged mode. Then, as close as possible, it'll work as a modem and should pass the public IP to the Buffalo router.
If you can't do that, sticking the Buffalo inside the Netgear's DMZ should have a similar effect in that you won't have to forward ports twice.

DRZ said:
Aside from the illiteracy of that post, most of it is ill-informed at best.

I'd go with utter nonsense.

Sin_Chase · 26 Oct 2009 at 00:13

You already have the kit but next time save the hassle of using cable equipment and a DSL line.

You would have been far wiser and had far more flexibility using a small low-powered Atom (or alike) box for your torrent client (and whatever else) and sticking with straight forward DSL kit with integrated N wireless or a straightforward N AP.

darkcooleo · 26 Oct 2009 at 10:34

Mantaray said:
ok .... first off ..... ADSL << problem 1 ...... use the bt home hub v2 ...... get a gigabyte switch plug all your comps in to that ..then plug that into the bt home hub....get gigabyte network cards (not the cheap nasty small 1s, am talking 15 pounds each ones) and cat5(e) cables,,,,,, wasting your time with just cat5 if u going gigabyte

there are network storage devices with the bit-torrent built in that are gigabyte,with the option to add more storage space and faster sata2 hdds , so u can transfer the files at gigabyte throw the network ... making the 1gig files .. a lot faster and giving u the full use of your gigabyte network ..

having 2 routers ...will be like 2 taps on a hose pipe,,,or,, first router will be arguing with other router thinking its a modem
and u will get better download speeds on a pc than a router with it built in

problem 1 ASDL << u probs have no choice with there been no virgin media in your area
problem 2 second router
problem 3 the router with bit torrent built in will look like a seeder box to the isp,as it will be on 24/7 ... ( not gud )

Hi,

1 BT home hub is not that great if i did use that in my setup i would only use it in bridged mode as a modem if possible. The buffalo router i have now has 4 x gigabit ports. Why would i get better download speeds on a pc then with a dediditated NAS with torrent client?

2 ADSL - correct have no choice, soon as a i can i'm going cable.
2nd router - i agree this is a issue, they are fighting and i will need to get port forwarding set up propally.

3 It won't look like a seed box because it's not on all the time. I can turn it off once downloads have finished and that is what i have been doing.

darkcooleo · 26 Oct 2009 at 10:37

DRZ said:
What?

Aside from the illiteracy of that post, most of it is ill-informed at best.

If you want to do this properly purchase a Linksys AM200 and stick that into bridge mode to replace the DG834.

P.S. The post that TrX linked to is of my network (the second image was our shared network when we shared a house).

Oh ok, thanks for your reply - the set up you had with TrX looked pretty impressive, what was it used for?

Been looking and i cannot seem to find the Linksys AM200, can you suggest another simular product?

darkcooleo · 26 Oct 2009 at 10:40

tolien said:
As suggested you need to try and get the DG834 to work in bridged mode. Then, as close as possible, it'll work as a modem and should pass the public IP to the Buffalo router.
If you can't do that, sticking the Buffalo inside the Netgear's DMZ should have a similar effect in that you won't have to forward ports twice.

I'd go with utter nonsense.

The DG834 does not have a bridged mode unfortunately for me, i did find a article that enables a modem only mode which i thought would save all my problems but once i activate modem only mode i cannot put in my BT login user and password so i can't connect to the internet. If i did put the buffalo into the Netgear's DMZ (which i think i know how to), on which device would i set my ports up on? Thanks.

http://www.vpncasestudy.com/download/DG/DG834_Tips100.pdf

darkcooleo · 26 Oct 2009 at 10:47

Sin_Chase said:
You already have the kit but next time save the hassle of using cable equipment and a DSL line.

You would have been far wiser and had far more flexibility using a small low-powered Atom (or alike) box for your torrent client (and whatever else) and sticking with straight forward DSL kit with integrated N wireless or a straightforward N AP.

I know what your saying but it all came down to cost, I wanted gigabit ports and the only ADSL router i could find was the Belkin N1 vision at £130 and then one of the chepest NAS with torrent client was around £100 = £230 total. The setup i have now is that the new router cost me £70 and i allready had a barely used USB HDD to use as a NAS drive with my buffalo. My thoughts were that i may have to buy a ADSL modem so that cost maybe £30-£40, i've still saved over £100 and it does exackly the same job.

P.S the buffalo is such a good router, stuffed full of really good functions. Just the user interface takes a bit of getting used to.

tolien · 26 Oct 2009 at 18:12

darkcooleo said:
once i activate modem only mode i cannot put in my BT login user and password so i can't connect to the internet.

You probably pass the username and password to the modem from the Buffalo. It should have a PPPoE authentication option somewhere.

If i did put the buffalo into the Netgear's DMZ (which i think i know how to), on which device would i set my ports up on? Thanks.

Clear all the port forwarding rules from the Netgear. The DMZ option would then forward everything that didn't have a rule to the Buffalo - and you'd then forward ports on that.

darkcooleo · 27 Oct 2009 at 08:46

tolien said:
You probably pass the username and password to the modem from the Buffalo. It should have a PPPoE authentication option somewhere.

Clear all the port forwarding rules from the Netgear. The DMZ option would then forward everything that didn't have a rule to the Buffalo - and you'd then forward ports on that.

Hi, i have got a PPPoE option on the buffalo but i'm not sure of the options i need to set, if i can do it that way it would be perfect because i can set the netgear to modem only mode. I'll take a screenshot when i'm home from uni and post it here.

About the port forwarding rules - i've disabled the NAT and or firewall. I'll look into using the netgear in modem only mode and post the screenshot here for you to advise, thanks.

darkcooleo · 27 Oct 2009 at 21:22

tolien said:
You probably pass the username and password to the modem from the Buffalo. It should have a PPPoE authentication option somewhere.

Clear all the port forwarding rules from the Netgear. The DMZ option would then forward everything that didn't have a rule to the Buffalo - and you'd then forward ports on that.

Hi, checked on the DMZ it only lets me create a DMZ when the ip address is 192.168.0.0 and the buffalo is set to 192.168.11.1, don't want to chage the buffalo as i fear i wil always get conflicting ip's.

I'd like to get the netgear working in modem only mode, but i would had to enter the login details for BT on the buffalo, i've upload the screenshots can you advise please? i did not know if this could be done as i have a PPPoA connection and not a PPPoE. images are internetconnection1 and 2

http://profile.imageshack.us/user/darkcooleo/

tolien · 27 Oct 2009 at 22:20

darkcooleo said:
Hi, checked on the DMZ it only lets me create a DMZ when the ip address is 192.168.0.0 and the buffalo is set to 192.168.11.1, don't want to chage the buffalo as i fear i wil always get conflicting ip's.

What? If you mean the DMZ has to be in the same subnet as the LAN interface of the Netgear (which would be the address the Netgear gives to the Buffalo's WAN interface) then that's quite right. If you set the Buffalo to use 192.168.11.1 as its WAN address you'd have no internet connection.

I'd like to get the netgear working in modem only mode, but i would had to enter the login details for BT on the buffalo, i've upload the screenshots can you advise please? i did not know if this could be done as i have a PPPoA connection and not a PPPoE. images are internetconnection1 and 2

The modem should handle the ATM part. As for what you feed into the boxes, your username and password seem like obvious candidates.
If you set it to "use PPPoE client", it should get an IP from your ISP via the modem.

darkcooleo · 27 Oct 2009 at 22:33

tolien said:
What? If you mean the DMZ has to be in the same subnet as the LAN interface of the Netgear (which would be the address the Netgear gives to the Buffalo's WAN interface) then that's quite right. If you set the Buffalo to use 192.168.11.1 as its WAN address you'd have no internet connection.

The modem should handle the ATM part. As for what you feed into the boxes, your username and password seem like obvious candidates.
If you set it to "use PPPoE client", it should get an IP from your ISP via the modem.

So do i need to go onto the bufalo and change the ip address for that to 192.168.0.10 for example and go onto the netgear and set the DMZ as 192.168.0.10?? or something else.

tolien · 27 Oct 2009 at 22:39

If you've left DHCP running on the Netgear, the Buffalo should automatically get an IP from it. Whatever that is, you want to add it to the DMZ.
It should be in whatever IP range the Netgear's LAN interface is in (i.e. if the Netgear's LAN IP is 192.168.0.1, it'll be 192.168.0.2-254).

darkcooleo · 27 Oct 2009 at 23:14

darkcooleo said:
So do i need to go onto the bufalo and change the ip address for that to 192.168.0.10 for example and go onto the netgear and set the DMZ as 192.168.0.10?? or something else.

Default for Buffalo is 192.168.11.1 with a dhcp pool starting at 192.168.11.2, i have now changed this to 192.168.0.10 and 192.168.0.11 - when i do this i get no internet connection, it says cannot find ip address or dhcp. I also tried another netgear router i have in modem only mode and that would not connect.

>>> Should i just buy a ADSL modem, would that so be much easier, just stick my username and password and thats it? plug that into Buffalo? just want to be able to open some danm ports and use 1 router only. It my own fault for cutting corners on cost but £130 is £130. Don't mind buying a ADSL modem that you reccomend if its going to get the job done.