Incapcity Benefit, I'm on it.

[Hagar]

I think you would have to be really sad to live on incapacity if you did not clinically need it.

1. Loss of self esteem and self reliance, effectively begging of the state. Unable to support your family commitments.

2. Lowish income all your life and likely to get worse and not better.

3. Retire on flat rate state pension without enhancements.

Theres more but that is depressing enough.

 

[edscdk]

I think you would have to be really sad to live on incapacity if you did not clinically need it.

1. Loss of self esteem and self reliance, effectively begging of the state. Unable to support your family commitments.

2. Lowish income all your life and likely to get worse and not better.

3. Retire on flat rate state pension without enhancements.

Theres more but that is depressing enough.

but if you cannot be bothered to work its a great scam, some people simply dont want to work and believe others should pay for them to live.

 

[wannabedamned]

My mum was off work for 3 months after being diagnosed with depression. She was depressed, I could tell. i've never seen her how she was in the 29 years I've known her. She couldnt have gone to work, She could hardly function.

She just had too much hit her all at once, A friends death, My dad being out of work, poor health in other areas. It took a 10 minute interview with a doctor to consider her depressed and she received a sick note. to be honest I thank God that she didnt have to jump through hoops to receive the help she genuinely needed because it would have just added to the problem

The thing is, Every single second my mum was off work, She hated it. She wanted to be back in work, she missed her friends and she hated being outside of her normal routine. Unfortunately when your mind cant focus and you're unable to cope with being around people due to anxiety. You have no choice but to retreat for some time. And without sick pay and\or incapacity benefit. My mum would have started falling into a lot of debt.

There are massive problems with incapacity benefit, and Job Seekers allowance. But the problem is not that its available, nor is it the fact Tax money goes towards making it available. the problem is people commit fraud

 

[Pestilence]

Right, so you have clinical depression.. fair enough, yet are living a full life full of enjoyment ?, surely that's the biggest contradiction ever.

That's not what I said, though, is it?

Is my life complete and full of enjoyment? Well, I get by if that's what you mean. I have a wife that loves me, a decent job and enough hobbies at home to keep me busy/occupied. I have severe relapses, loss of temper, loss of patience, loss of will, and a mild dependence on alcohol for self medication. Occasionally I just stop and break down crying when I manage to get a few moments alone. Why? Nothing in particular. I'll sit in silence alone or I'll lie awake at night, staring at the ceiling trying to control my thoughts as they once again argue that there's just no point to getting up in the morning.

That's quite a common occurance.

Every single day is a battle within my own head -- I've posted experiences over the years in various OcUK threads, all of which have been well received and enlightening for some. At its worst, I've been a completely non-functioning, alcoholic wreck of a person just five minutes away from ending it all. If I'd had the balls, that is, which is a train of thought that perpetuates the vicious circle behind it all. I've stared into the face of Hell itself and managed to back away. Almost every minute of my life remains a fight to make sure I don't go back there again.

You, you just sound like a very bitter person who thinks anyone battling depression just sits around all day, sunken eyed and catatonic. Your best mate might be severely depressed and you wouldn't even know it. He'll hit the pub with you, have a stonking and enjoyable night out, then just go home and hang himself.

THAT'S how it works.

I have the joy of queing daily at a large post office, and I'd say half the people there are slotting those little pink cards into the machines 'all of it please mate' they say, one after another. I really wanna pipe up and say 'so what the %$&% is meant to be wrong with you', 'you look fitter than me'.

Well at least they had a nice sleep..... often I've been up since 1am.. it's 9am, with another 8-10 hrs to go till I can lounge about. Still, they have the wad of free cash... off to the cafe next door for a nice free fry up then off to primark for some guchi gear, maybe stopping at phone shop for a iphone on way home. (home to watch 50" plasma and build crazy high spec PCs)

Lifes great

Some people are genuinely sick and need help, I agree... the large majority are taking the *&^%

There's that bitterness again.

I'll admit, I'm almost as bitter as you about the whole thing. I live pretty much on a council estate, and I see them on a daily basis. Hell, their scratty children love nothing more than harrassing me and the wife any chance they get. Whatever they can claim for -- depression, bad back, can't work because they've got 50 kids... they've certainly got more time and money that we do, both working full time. But I'd rather work, I enjoy buying the stuff I want with my own hard-earned, and as much as it almost kills me to get up and get on the bus some days I do it because I have more pride than that.

As I said, though, it's a tough fight, and I won't belittle anyone that genuinely has to do it every day, and doesn't feel that they're strong enough.

Far too many fiddle the dole, but "the majority"? I'm not convinced.

 

[Xordium]

Just wondering if they do a medical will they look a the symptoms of my disease but it sounds like its more of an assesment of your basic physical abilities ?

Look at my first post in this thread and the links there will tell you exactly how they score it. But the end of what you say there is about it really. They are making an assessment of what people can do and score to that not a person's diagnosis which is an bit of a bummer if their scoring criteria is prejudice against certain things (which we know it is) and forces people to go to an appeal where medical evidence is better accepted.

 

[King Damager]

But let me say this. People here (and anywhere else) complain about people who abuse and take advantage of it. We don't abuse or hate those that really need it.

This.

kd

 

[MOOGLEYS]

Look at my first post in this thread and the links there will tell you exactly how they score it. But the end of what you say there is about it really. They are making an assessment of what people can do and score to that not a person's diagnosis which is an bit of a bummer if their scoring criteria is prejudice against certain things (which we know it is) and forces people to go to an appeal where medical evidence is better accepted.

According to the guide I seem to have skipped a great deal of the assesments ? I applied over the phone and with the help of the veterans agency. Within a week I had a letter saying I will be paid ESA from the 1st november. The letter states I may possibly be called for a work related interview or my wife could be called up as well.
The only thing they have asked for is proof of my RAF pension and my doctors note confirming i'm unable to work.
It's a really confusing system I think I will just do as they ask and see what happpens tbh. Luckily for me I have the support of the veterans agency and british legion if required.

 

[MOOGLEYS]

Just found out why I have been accepted without the tests as per below, it seems my discharge from the forces because of the condition and my doctors/consultant notes are sufficent...

But some people will be found to have limited capability for work and awarded ESA without
having a medical
If you are exempt you should not have to have a medical, although sometimes the grounds
for your exemption may not be picked up until the medical.
If you have a serious condition and you clearly meet the criteria for limited capability for work
and/or limited capability for work-related activity and there is medical evidence to support this
then you may not have to have a medical. The medical evidence may be just a sick note
from your GP. Alternatively, the DWP may contact your GP or other health professional for a
more detailed report, usually an ESA113 or a Factual Report which asks specific questions
about your condition and how it affects you.

 

[edGfaCTor]

Just found out why I have been accepted without the tests as per below, it seems my discharge from the forces because of the condition and my doctors/consultant notes are sufficent...

I know this isn't your fault and it's good that you got it but this really annoys me how easily you have got this.

There is a lot of us that are struggling to do basic tasks and they treat us like ***p and that £105 is top rate as well.

Sounds like your getting esa because you are getting it based on contributions I have heard it is far easier that way but they will be changing the rules for next year so it limits you to claim for only 12 months.

 

[MOOGLEYS]

tbh i'm in quite a bad way with this colitis and will be having my bowl removed quite soon. Although in the forces I have not worked for over 18 months. I was on sick leave awaiting decisions of the mod on what to do with me.
I'm now waiting for my hospital notes to be transfered. Trust me I would rather be at work than have this horrid disease it destroys you. I have lost my career because of it and after 16 years it's not a great feeling.
I think being med discharged from the forces and having the backing of the veterans agency has helped immensly in any claims.

 

[elmarko]

work has statistically been proven to be beneficial in the long term for a persons health, both mental and physical. With this is mind, why should someone not be expected to take steps towards work as a condition of receiving their benefit where appropriate?

Wrong.

Somebody clearly knows nothing about statistics.

Post hoc ergo propter hoc.

The link is poverty, the poorest people are also the ones not in work - they are the most likely to get depressed.

Work does not make people happy (unless they enjoy the job they do) - which most people don't, making work a net "downer" for a large portion of society.

It's just being poor is worse than being at work for most.

Getting sick & ill people into low paid & enjoyable mindless jobs will not make them any happier.

Besides, who on earth is going to want to give a job to somebody who has been on IB for the last 10 years? (not blaming them, but who would?)

 

[Vonhelmet]

Wrong.

Somebody clearly knows nothing about statistics.

Post hoc ergo propter hoc.

The link is poverty, the poorest people are also the ones not in work - they are the most likely to get depressed.

Work does not make people happy (unless they enjoy the job they do) - which most people don't, making work a net "downer" for a large portion of society.

It's just being poor is worse than being at work for most.

Getting sick & ill people into low paid & enjoyable mindless jobs will not make them any happier.

Besides, who on earth is going to want to give a job to somebody who has been on IB for the last 10 years? (not blaming them, but who would?)

Given that you've just dismissed his statistical claim, can you provide evidence for dismissing it?

 

[Xordium]

Given that you've just dismissed his statistical claim, can you provide evidence for dismissing it?

Wouldn't the onus be on the person making the claim in the first place to actually prove it is true which in this case I would think would not be too hard.

 

[Vonhelmet]

Wouldn't the onus be on the person making the claim in the first place to actually prove it is true which in this case I would think would not be too hard.

Either way, I'm not fussed. It's just not very compelling to have someone rock up and say "LOL, you know nothing about statistics! You're wrong!" without providing any evidence of why.

 

[Xordium]

Either way, I'm not fussed. It's just not very compelling to have someone rock up and say "LOL, you know nothing about statistics! You're wrong!" without providing any evidence of why.

I agree with you but I find it annoying when people say "evidence shows" without actually proving that. If you are going to go down the I'm right I have got empirical evidence route then have the decency to show that evidence if you are going to take a position of intellectual superiority.

 

[Vonhelmet]

I agree with you but I find it annoying when people say "evidence shows" without actually proving that. If you are going to go down the I'm right I have got empirical evidence route then have the decency to show that evidence if you are going to take a position of intellectual superiority.

It's equally silly to turn up and counter it by dismissing it without providing any evidence of your own. It makes you just as bad as the person you're dismissing.

 

[Tican]

My mother has been on ESA for about a year due to chronic depression and panic attacks.

She got called in for a medical and they said she is fit to work.

She cannot even leave the house for more than 10 minutes, and even then it takes 20 - 30 minutes for her to "prepare" her mind to leave.

She is now awaiting the appeal date - but still on ESA while this is going on.

 

[Xordium]

My mother has been on ESA for about a year due to chronic depression and panic attacks.

She got called in for a medical and they said she is fit to work.

She cannot even leave the house for more than 10 minutes, and even then it takes 20 - 30 minutes for her to "prepare" her mind to leave.

She is now awaiting the appeal date - but still on ESA while this is going on.

Well two things here. One appeals have a high success rate so that is good but by turning upto the appeal and the medical you are instantly disproving the can't leave her house for more than 10 minutes and that's the way they will assess it. So she needs to think how she will address that issue.

 

[Will]

This is not in any way a dig at you as I am all for helping people as long as it can be shown to have a positive outcome for that person, but as a Disability Employment Advisor for Jobcentreplus could you tell me how it can be justified for an individual who is too sick to move or even get himself to the toilet at times be placed in to a Work related activity group? Incidently the person in question has to have someone accompanying him where and when he can get out as he is a danger to himself due to the nature of his complaint. The particular individual has an incurrable illness yet somehow someone at either Atos or the DWP have decided he will be eventually capable of work?

As I said...the decisions made at the medical are not always correct, this much as true, on a personal note I do find myself scratching my head sometimes....the support group exists for a reason and the system should be providing for those in most severe need.

One thing I will say for those who have had problems with dealing with the benefits, go to your jobcentre and ask to make an appointment or telephone....ask to speak to a Disability Employment Advisor. Such people will have greater knowledge of disability benefits and the way the system works than most frontline or call centre staff. Not every job centre will have them...there are 3 in the whole of Wolverhampton for example.

Many of the people I see day to day who have had problems with negotiationg the system have never gone beyond calling the contact centre numbers (and thus speak to people with limited benefit knowledge and understanding of peoples options) rather than speaking to someone with more in depth knowledge. This is a problem with the system, undoubtably, but there are people who can try and help you deal with that.

Wrong.

Somebody clearly knows nothing about statistics.

Post hoc ergo propter hoc.

The link is poverty, the poorest people are also the ones not in work - they are the most likely to get depressed.

Best you get reading then, 257 pages of study ahead for you:

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/hwwb-is-work-good-for-you.pdf

Other links:

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23366799-working-makes-us-happy.do

http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/workplacehealth/Pages/work-is-good-for-health.aspx

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-162482/Work-good-health.html

http://www.facoccmed.ac.uk/edtrain/ugresrce/comp2at1.jsp

Now if its poverty, and not being unemployed, is what makes peoples health worse (and I can well understand that a statistical link can be made here in the same way), lets think...what is the best way for someone to move out of poverty?

Claiming benefits does not help....for most people, being in work is a better option financially than claiming benefit, and thus working is moving them further away from poverty.

Besides, who on earth is going to want to give a job to somebody who has been on IB for the last 10 years? (not blaming them, but who would?)

It does happen. The jobs market is difficult for sure, but not insurmountable. What is the alternative though....that the state should carry on paying for someone forever, or that they should not be expected to do anything at all to help move closer to work?

It is not about just sticking anyone into any old job regardless of circumstances either....is someone going to stay in a job if it does not suit their health in terms of workplace, working patterns, job tasks or environments? Of course not....and thus they go back onto benefits. Trying to help someone into sustainable employment is the way forward.

 

[Tican]

Well two things here. One appeals have a high success rate so that is good but by turning upto the appeal and the medical you are instantly disproving the can't leave her house for more than 10 minutes and that's the way they will assess it. So she needs to think how she will address that issue.

She is currently having legal advice. So I am sure they can sort it out