Insurance Modification Question

[Gaygle]

Oh, and want to hear the bestest bit? Most of the mainstream insurers (well, all of the ones that I've heard of) that make you declare and pay for these options won't actually cover them like for like in the event of the accident. Ace!

So they charge you more for having these factory fitted options, but don't cover them?

And then they wonder why people lie and cheat to get out of paying as much insurance...

 

[Lum]

But now we are talking about a new type of declaring modifications. Factory fitted 'modifications'. I.E if your car didn't have it on the boggo Base Spec model you have to declare it. Yes, this includes your factory fitted Bi-Xenons, your factory fitted parking sensors, your 1inch larger factory fitted alloy wheels and factory fitted upgraded sound system.

Not strictly accurate. If your car's model is, say, "Ford Escort 1.6 Ghia" you don't have to declare the features that were standard on the Ghia, even if they wern't fitted to the "1.3 Popular", so you don't have to declare your electric windows.

If you added further options on top of the base spec of the Ghia, those would be declarable.

 

[PMKeates]

I, personally, will not believe the whole declaring factory options thing, until I have proof in front of me.

I have never declared factory fit options, despite my previous car having a fortune's worth on it, and would love to see any insurer try to influence a claim on the basis that I didn't declare my car had an extended lighting pack or somesuch.

 

[Peerzy]

Oh I'm not going to declare my factory fitted tints, I think I should but I'm not going to.

 

[iaind]

Edit - nevermind, can see this discussion has already been round in circles already

 

[Dandle]

I, personally, will not believe the whole declaring factory options thing, until I have proof in front of me.

Its there in small print on most insurance policies. a lot of insurance companies even state on the online quote something along the lines of "A modification is any change to the car away from the manufacturer's standard specification including optional extras, such as alloy wheels, body styling kits and exhaust/carburettor upgrades". Its only the fact someone pointed it out to me that I started phoning different companies to check when it came to my renewal and found that they class everything thats an optional extra as a modification.

 

[PMKeates]

Its there in small print on most insurance policies. a lot of insurance companies even state on the online quote something along the lines of "A modification is any change to the car away from the manufacturer's standard specification including optional extras, such as alloy wheels, body styling kits and exhaust/carburettor upgrades". Its only the fact someone pointed it out to me that I started phoning different companies to check when it came to my renewal and found that they class everything thats an optional extra as a modification.

I can find the small print, but I'd like to see it actually enforced, in circumstances where the modification isn't a significant change in specification.

 

[iaind]

I also wont believe it until I see proof, not a vague paragraph that could be interpreted either way.

For a start - how would you know if the electric drivers seat is standard or not? Unless you're a car nerd like us, you wont.

It's blatantly aimed at aftermarket modifications.

 

[Joshy]

I also wont believe it until I see proof, not a vague paragraph that could be interpreted either way.

For a start - how would you know if the electric drivers seat is standard or not? Unless you're a car nerd like us, you wont.

It's blatantly aimed at aftermarket modifications.

How on earth can you interpret the following (an extract taken directly from Admiral's website) any differently?

Please enter if your car is modified.

A modification is any change to the car away from the manufacturer's standard specification including optional extras, such as alloy wheels, body styling kits and exhaust/carburettor upgrades.

If you are uncertain whether your car is modified or not, please check with your local garage.

'Optional extras' is highlighted in bold on the website for Christ sakes.

 

[Dandle]

I also wont believe it until I see proof, not a vague paragraph that could be interpreted either way.

For a start - how would you know if the electric drivers seat is standard or not? Unless you're a car nerd like us, you wont.

It's blatantly aimed at aftermarket modifications.

That's why I phoned up several companies and asked. It's aimed at any thing that takes the car away from the standard factory spec for that model. Including factory fitted optional extras.

 

[iaind]

Sounds mad - as above, how would most people even know if they buy a car second hand?

I'm just trying to find what my insurer has to say (swiftcover), all I've found so far is:

Modifications

This is when the car's engine, suspension or body has been altered after it was manufactured.

The most common modifications are alloy wheels, spoiler, sunroof and any performance enhancements.

Aha:

https://secure.swiftcover.com/EN/Home/Default.aspx?tabid=46

Your Quote - Car modifications
We will cover your car if you have any standard options fitted when your car was newly built by the manufacturer or their approved garage (excluding any form of performance enhancement

So the real answer is, it depends on the insurer

 

[Joshy]

Sounds mad - as above, how would most people even know if they buy a car second hand?

I'm just trying to find what my insurer has to say (swiftcover), all I've found so far is:



Aha:

https://secure.swiftcover.com/EN/Home/Default.aspx?tabid=46



So the real answer is, it depends on the insurer

Well yes it does depend on the insurer, but the point is that some major insurers certainly do charge for factory fit options, meaning a rather lot of motorists are out there with invalid policies (and are ironically probably the first people to moan about uninsured drivers/Fronters/'Boyracers' without mods declared)

As for not knowing, I guess as far as an insurance company is concerned ignorance isn't a valid defence. Do you think I'd be able to get away with the GTI-6 conversion in my 1.6 GTi by shrugging my shoulders and claiming that I thought it came from the factory like that?

 

[PMKeates]

As for not knowing, I guess as far as an insurance company is concerned ignorance isn't a valid defence. Do you think I'd be able to get away with the GTI-6 conversion in my 1.6 GTi by shrugging my shoulders and claiming that I thought it came from the factory like that?

But that's a totally different thing. In that instance the car is completely different, and was never manufactured in that way ever. What we are talking about here is the tiniest difference to the car that actually has no reasonable effect.

Admiral defines in their modifications cover:

Non Standards Parts/Modifications
Fitted parts or alterations which:

Affect the insured vehicle's cosmetic appearance and/or performance and/or mechanical make up

Are not made or sold by the vehicle manufacturer, or parts which different from the original manufacturer's specification

This doesn't tally exactly with the wording in the Admiral quote engine. The parts ARE made and sold by the vehicle manufacturer and form part of the manufacturer's specification for that model. Then there's another piece of wording:

any modifications unless they form part of the manufacturers standard specification or are optional extras that we have agreed to cover.

and more...

Your policy does not cover any non standard parts (modifications). Manufactuers optional extras are only covered if they have been declared and we have agreed to cover them.

but then...

If you make a claim for loss or damage to your car, we will only pay for the cost of replacing parts needed for your car to meet the manufacturer's specification.

These statements do not add up. Specifically "we will only pay for the cost of replacing parts needed for your car to meet the manufacturer's specification". If the manufacturer has built a car with Xenon headlights, then the manufacturer's specification for that car includes Xenon headlights. Whether the trim grade of that car has Xenon's already specified is not important. This is a limitation of the insurer's ability to identify cars. When you see a "Sport" BMW or a "Zetec" Fiesta, these are just collections of options that exist as "rapid spec" packages that the manufacturer/distributor/importer chooses to offer in a given market. When the factory builds a car it's individual specification is created and recorded. This is why the same trim level in one market does not equal the same trim level in another, if that trim level even exists at all.

 

[iaind]

and are ironically probably the first people to moan about uninsured drivers/Fronters/'Boyracers' without mods declared

What on earth led you to that rather huge assumption/generalisation?

As for not knowing, I guess as far as an insurance company is concerned ignorance isn't a valid defence. Do you think I'd be able to get away with the GTI-6 conversion in my 1.6 GTi by shrugging my shoulders and claiming that I thought it came from the factory like that?

No, ignorance isn't a defence, that wasnt my point - I was saying how is Joe Average meant to know that the electric windows in the back were an optional extra? The car obviously left the factory that way so it wouldnt stand out as a "modification". I'd struggle to tell you if some of the features on my car were specified as optional extras

 

[miniyazz]

Well yes it does depend on the insurer, but the point is that some major insurers certainly do charge for factory fit options, meaning a rather lot of motorists are out there with invalid policies (and are ironically probably the first people to moan about uninsured drivers/Fronters/'Boyracers' without mods declared)

As for not knowing, I guess as far as an insurance company is concerned ignorance isn't a valid defence. Do you think I'd be able to get away with the GTI-6 conversion in my 1.6 GTi by shrugging my shoulders and claiming that I thought it came from the factory like that?

If you could prove that you didn't do the conversion, that you didn't know about the conversion when you bought it, and that you wouldn't have noticed the difference since owning it, I think you'd have a fair case. Proving x, y and z may not be too easy though.

 

[Joshy]

But that's a totally different thing. In that instance the car is completely different, and was never manufactured in that way ever. What we are talking about here is the tiniest difference to the car that actually has no reasonable effect.

Is it though? If the Admiral search engine blurb is anything to go by my engine conversion makes the car different from the manufactures original specification... Like parking sensors .

I agree that it is stupid, but in the eyes of an insurance company it could be seen as the same thing - Ignorance. My engine conversion is fairly OEM in the quality of the wiring, there aren't any shiny bits and to be quite honest, it's pretty manky under there and quite possibly looks like it could have been under there for the past 20 years. I reckon without a shadow of a doubt that I could pass it off to someone who knew nothing about cars that it was standard, so why can't I claim ignorance? It comes down to the same thing, the owner not knowing enough about their car.

What about BMWs? Can I shove a 325i motor into my 316i Shell because TECHNICALLY the bigger engine was an option?

And where do we draw the line? I've heard of a few people paying extra to insure their Cilos because they had the cupsport package fitted. Is this acceptable?

 

[SGWills]

if you got optional extra alloy wheels, factory tinted windows etc etc etc and you have a claim and they havent been notified they will supply you with a standard vehicle without the extras, why would they pay out for a vehicle with tons of optional extras if they have not been told they are fitted, that would be like covering a bmw without any extras but when u need it replaced saying well make sure its got the 19" alloys, upgraded stereo and listing every single optional extra BMW offer

 

[PMKeates]

What about BMWs? Can I shove a 325i motor into my 316i Shell because TECHNICALLY the bigger engine was an option?

No, because that's fraudulent. You have changed the specification. However, if it left the factory as a 325i, it'd be a different matter. This is why 325i's have a different insurance group to 316i's. The 325i with optional rear folding seats has the same rating, in a system of assessment made for the insurance companies, than the 325i without, and as such I think they're fair game.

 

[Trifid]

What about modifying the airbox yourself? Lets use the Honda S2000 as an example, you can take the lid off the airbox to improve the noise. You have not added a induction kit or changed the filters. And you still have the same airbox - just missing a part. Is this declarable?

 

[Fr0dders]

Wait, so i've got to declare my factory fitted Bi-Xenons? What happens if you have expensive optional extra leather in your car?

I'm not convinced...

I thought most insurance company's classed a "modification" as something that is added to the car after it left the factory.

its down to the individual insurer.

Your best bet is to ring and ask if your covered if you need a replacement Bi Xenon headlight cluster. I know on the vectra they are thankfully standard, but the lights themselves are about £200 a cluster more than the non xenon ones found in the SRI.