Intel has a Pretty Big Problem..

[humbug]

All 4 companies fab the majority of their stuff in Asia. Intel the majority in the US and a little bit in Germany and Israel. I think that as much as the MBA approach to running a capex company is the issue sadly.

Intel like Apple, Nvidia, AMD and ARM also manufacture a lot of chips at TSMC, Arrow Lake is TSMC N3 and Nova Lake will be TSMC N2.

Yes Granite Rapids is on Intel 3, i'm sure that's what you're talking about . AMD by Q1 2025 has 40% revenue share on server / datacentre chips, this is on a 26% units share, so despite Intel making Granite Rapids in house its AMD making them at TSMC who enjoy higher margins on those chips, significantly so.

Intel's server chips are increasingly becoming "the budget option" with AMD chip's being "the premium option" knowing this should inform you why in the retail consumer space where people aren't locked in to software dependencies or contracts Intel are making their chips at TSMC, because where the consumer can go anywhere they like, where they have a real choice you cannot flog them uncompetitive products.

Right now Intel are not competitive, not with their architecture design and certainly not with their fabs, Arrow Lake is on TSMC N3, Zen 5 is on TSMC N5, a much older node and yet Zen 5 is more power efficient and more performant than Arrow Lake, what's damming about that particular instance is Intel can't even blame their own fabs for that.

So as it stands Intel cannot design CPU's that compete with AMD and they also can't seem to be able to catch up with TSMC, the result of that is AMD absolutely are eating Intel's lunch, in every segment Intel relentlessly lose market share and revenue share to AMD and Intel are having to go to their competitor TSMC to make their consumer chips for them to try and stop it getting a whole lot worse.

Intel are deep in the death valley, that's not necessarily a bad thing but we don't know if they have hit rock bottom yet to start climbing their way out the other side and one thing is sure, they are out of money, the giant cash stash that they trolled AMD with a few years ago is gone, they need to start that climb out now, more void below them to fall in to and they will lose grip of the rope.

Zen 6 BTW is shaping up to be the chip that sets a new high bar, again.

 

[AthlonXP1800]

Intel CEO Lip-Bu Tan Goes Against Musk As He Spins Off Robotics Business

Intel spins off RealSense despite robotics market optimism from Musk and Morgan Stanley, to focus on chip manufacturing under CEO Lip-Bu Tan.

wccftech.com

 

[sx_turbo]

Intel still have massive consumer share, they still have the OEM market pretty much locked down, they just need to focus on where they are going.

They aren't uncompetitive in terms of performance , real world performance them and AMD are still mostly on par with each other, ones better at gaming while using less power, the other is better in actual work loads.

Intel just needs some strong leadership and fat trimming

 

[kar]

Intel like Apple, Nvidia, AMD and ARM also manufacture a lot of chips at TSMC, Arrow Lake is TSMC N3 and Nova Lake will be TSMC N2.

Yes Granite Rapids is on Intel 3, i'm sure that's what you're talking about . AMD by Q1 2025 has 40% revenue share on server / datacentre chips, this is on a 26% units share, so despite Intel making Granite Rapids in house its AMD making them at TSMC who enjoy higher margins on those chips, significantly so.

Intel's server chips are increasingly becoming "the budget option" with AMD chip's being "the premium option" knowing this should inform you why in the retail consumer space where people aren't locked in to software dependencies or contracts Intel are making their chips at TSMC, because where the consumer can go anywhere they like, where they have a real choice you cannot flog them uncompetitive products.

Right now Intel are not competitive, not with their architecture design and certainly not with their fabs, Arrow Lake is on TSMC N3, Zen 5 is on TSMC N5, a much older node and yet Zen 5 is more power efficient and more performant than Arrow Lake, what's damming about that particular instance is Intel can't even blame their own fabs for that.

So as it stands Intel cannot design CPU's that compete with AMD and they also can't seem to be able to catch up with TSMC, the result of that is AMD absolutely are eating Intel's lunch, in every segment Intel relentlessly lose market share and revenue share to AMD and Intel are having to go to their competitor TSMC to make their consumer chips for them to try and stop it getting a whole lot worse.

Intel are deep in the death valley, that's not necessarily a bad thing but we don't know if they have hit rock bottom yet to start climbing their way out the other side and one thing is sure, they are out of money, the giant cash stash that they trolled AMD with a few years ago is gone, they need to start that climb out now, more void below them to fall in to and they will lose grip of the rope.

Zen 6 BTW is shaping up to be the chip that sets a new high bar, again.

Agreed the problems extend at least as much to design as process. They had Jim Keller as recently at 2020, I don't recall the backstory as to how they lost him but would be fascinating to see what might have been if he'd been able to deliver something.

 

[AthlonXP1800]

Intel will cancel 14A and following nodes if it can't win a major external customer — move would cede leading-edge nodes to TSMC and Samsung

Then exit the leading-edge process technologies completely.

www.tomshardware.com

Intel will have massive problem if Intel will not secure a major external customer then Intel will cancel 14A process and future process node developments. That mean it will be the end of Intel Foundry to manufacture future Intel CPUs which will be manufacture at either TSMC and Samsung.

It is absolutely madness Intel over the last 10 years wasted billions into 20A, 18A, 14A, 10A, RibbonFET 1.0, PowerVIA 1.0, RibbonFET 2.0, PowerVIA 2.0 and Glass Substrates then cancel it before it enter full production.

 

[Grim5]

"If we are unable to secure a significant external customer and meet important customer milestones for Intel 14A, we face the prospect that it will not be economical to develop and manufacture Intel 14A and successor leading-edge nodes on a go-forward basis. In such event, we may discontinue our pursuit of Intel 14A and successor node projects"


that's grim, read between the lines - Intel is saying that if 14A flops that could be the end of Intel's manufacturing business and they'll be forced to become a chip design company only

 

[Rroff]

that could be the end of Intel's manufacturing business and they'll be forced to become a chip design company only

Sounds more like the intention is to consolidate on their most recent matured node and go back to the drawing board for any future development if they can't find a major customer, rather than wind down their manufacturing division entirely. Though with the inevitable redundancies and loss of talent that may kill off their ability to develop newer advanced nodes.

 

[humbug]

"If we are unable to secure a significant external customer and meet important customer milestones for Intel 14A, we face the prospect that it will not be economical to develop and manufacture Intel 14A and successor leading-edge nodes on a go-forward basis. In such event, we may discontinue our pursuit of Intel 14A and successor node projects"


that's grim, read between the lines - Intel is saying that if 14A flops that could be the end of Intel's manufacturing business and they'll be forced to become a chip design company only

Interesting...... i wrote here.

Trump is sceptical of the chips act in its current form, tho he has not yet made any significant adjustments to it, he does however wish to see results for that money.

These Intel fabs to be cancelled are not in the US, they are Ireland and Germany, this isn't going to irk Trump.

There is $50 Billion up for grabs, Intel get $7.86 billion, unless their US fabs remain unutilised by a major player, Intel's problem is TSMC, they are building fabs in the US, AMD are using them, so are Nvidia and Intel are in talks with TSMC to have them run their fabs for a 20% stake, basically Intel want TSMC to bring their knowhow to Intel's fabs for a 20% stake in the fab, not in Intel, just the fab in question, don't know how those negotiations are going to work out but it seems to me this is Intel trying it on, its a bad deal, Why would TSMC bring Intel up to their standards and with that create competition for themselves for 20% of a fab AMD nor Apple and realistically nor Nvidia are going to use due to a conflict of interest.

Intel want to have their cake and eat it, they wish to be a manufacturer in competition with TSMC while having TSMC help them do that and continue being a chip designer in direct competition with those who they wish would use their TSMC run fabs instead of TSMC's own fabs.

I don't know weather to marvel at the dilution of all this or the sheer narcissistic arrogance.

I think Intel will trundle along a bit more like this until they are left with no choice but to make a choice.

 

[smilingcrow]

I recall thinking about 4 or 5 years ago that Intel had such a large bottom line in terms of costs that they would be vulnerable if there was a significant downturn.
It didn't cross my mind that things would deteriorate this quickly.
Credit to AMD and TSMC for turning the screw and Nvidia's march hasn't helped either.

 

[TrixP10]

Intel Q2 Earnings Fall Short of Estimates, Revenues Remain Flat Y/Y

Intel Corporation INTC reported mixed second-quarter 2025 results, with revenues beating the Zacks Consensus Estimate but the adjusted earnings missing the same. Despite solid traction from an accelerated ramp-up of artificial intelligence (AI) PCs, margins were significantly affected by initiative…

www.tradingview.com

Cash Flow & Liquidity

As of June 30, 2025, Intel had cash and cash equivalents of $9.64 billion with $44.02 billion of long-term debt. In the second quarter of 2025, Intel generated $2.05 billion of cash from operating activities compared to a cash flow of $2.29 billion a year ago.

 

[Kelt]

Bet Intel wish they hadn't sat on their ass churning out four core slop for years instead of producing better and more innovative chips.

 

[jigger]

Bet Intel wish they hadn't sat on their ass churning out four core slop for years instead of producing better and more innovative chips.

Yeah, sadly the company was run by accountants and marketing people who’s sole objective was squeezing every cent possible out of Intel. Intel was comfortably bringing in over 1 billion a week.

 

[AthlonXP1800]

Intel Considering Spinning Off its Network and Edge Group

According to a report over at CRN, Intel is looking at spinning off its Network and Edge Group—also known as NEX—and is now looking for investors to take over the business unit. This is according to an internal memo that CRN has been privy to, and it was sent out by the Network and Edge Group...

www.techpowerup.com

OMG I hope Intel will not spinning off network group, I agreed with comments that Intel networks chips and network drivers are the best, they are absolutely KING.

My first Intel network chip was WG82579V on ASUS P8Z77-V motherboard in 2012, second Intel network chip was 219-V on Gigabyte Z370 AORUS Gaming 7 motherboard in 2017 and now used current third Intel network chip 226-V on ASUS ROG Strix Z790-E Gaming Wifi II motherboard in 2024.

 

[humbug]

I have found Intel's networking chips to be the most reliable, those things can be a bit finicky, unless its Intel, then they are solid.

 

[Emlyn_Dewar]

As the article says, they did have the shenanigans with their 2.5g cards just not working right, but it seems extremely short-sighted to be looking at binning off this segment?
Must be to get some quick easy money in?

Job losses were necessary, but it seems like Intel have been cutting more of the people it needs and keeping a lot of the ones it doesn't? Now it's thinking of getting rid of one of it's best parts?
When can we expect a new CEO? Pat, are you there? Come back.

 

[humbug]

As the article says, they did have the shenanigans with their 2.5g cards just not working right, but it seems extremely short-sighted to be looking at binning off this segment?
Must be to get some quick easy money in?

Job losses were necessary, but it seems like Intel have been cutting more of the people it needs and keeping a lot of the ones it doesn't? Now it's thinking of getting rid of one of it's best parts?
When can we expect a new CEO? Pat, are you there? Come back.

You see this? This was the Gate House to AMD's original 1969 campus. Its the very last thing they sold to stay afloat, how much do you think that hurt? Its now a car park, AMD now reside in two locations, one generic looking office block and the original ATI building.

Sometimes these things are not a choice.......

 

[AthlonXP1800]

You see this? This was the Gate House to AMD's original 1969 campus. Its the very last thing they sold to stay afloat, how much do you think that hurt? Its now a car park, AMD now reside in two locations, one generic looking office block and the original ATI building.

Sometimes these things are not a choice.......

Oh wow I dont know AMD original 1969 campus at 1 AMD Place was no longer existed. Accorded to records the campus was demolished in 2019.

You not quite correct claimed the campus site is now a car park.

Street View of 37°23'11.0"N 121°59'57.0"W · Google Maps

37.386389, -121.999167

www.google.com

You can see on google map street view compared 2016 to 2022 that the right side of campus is now a park and the park with few trees below campus gate at right side is now a car park, the Redwood Place Apartment Homes sat right on site of the centre and left side of old AMD campus. 1 AMD Place street is now called 1040 Indian Wells Avenue.

 

[humbug]

Oh wow I dont know AMD original 1969 campus at 1 AMD Place was no longer existed. Accorded to records the campus was demolished in 2019.

You not quite correct claimed the campus site is now a car park.

Street View of 37°23'11.0"N 121°59'57.0"W · Google Maps

37.386389, -121.999167

www.google.com

You can see on google map street view compared 2016 to 2022 that the right side of campus is now a park and the park with few trees below campus gate at right side is now a car park, the Redwood Place Apartment Homes sat right on site of the centre and left side of old AMD campus. 1 AMD Place street is now called 1040 Indian Wells Avenue.

Oh.... its just what i read, that was obviously wrong... i'm glad the Gate House still exists complete with the old Green Arrow logo, may it forever last....

Thanks

 

[humbug]

Ah... it doesn't...

 

[ubersonic]

Bet Intel wish they hadn't sat on their ass churning out four core slop for years instead of producing better and more innovative chips.

They probably also wish they hadn't spent the majority of the 2010s watching AMD being kept in business by their GPU division while thinking to themselves "Hmm, good job they have that GPU division to print money while the CPU division is floundering, glad I don't need one because my CPUs are dominant"