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Intel Quits the High End Market
- Thread starter Jamin280672
- Start date
Soldato
I doubt it. They are just furiously cooking up ideas to come to market with something in the next few years.
Caporegime
The way he cited Zen 3's higher ST performance and pointed out the Intel chip was already running at 5Ghz, in the next sentence said Intel will take back the ST crown, his confirmation bias overruled what he's seeing with his own eyes
Deleted member 209350
D
Deleted member 209350
Is this real? Somehow im doubtful, but maybe it would be best for them to streamline their focus for a while at least. They are so far behind threadripper that its embarrassing, no point even competing at this time, and then you have the rumours of the new ARM processors that apple are using which will also best intel's high end chips.
Caporegime
Rumours are Intel's top Mainstream Rocket Lake CPU will be 8 cores 16 threads, certainly we know they are calling it the 11900K
The reason for this is they are quite large, they are 10nm chips back ported to 14nm, they are also not power efficient.
Given the per core performance is still slightly less than Zen 3 and there is a 16 core 32 thread Zen 3 CPU on the mainstream platform, Intel are quite obviously not competing even close to that, so yes Intel has quit the high end.
As for HEDT, well we will no doubt see a 32 core 64 thread Zen 3 threadripper and the chances of a 64 core 128 thread Zen 3 is also high, Intel aren't competing anything near that either, not even half that if they bother at all because the mainstream 16 core Ryzen is going to be tough for them to beat convincingly.
The reason for this is they are quite large, they are 10nm chips back ported to 14nm, they are also not power efficient.
Given the per core performance is still slightly less than Zen 3 and there is a 16 core 32 thread Zen 3 CPU on the mainstream platform, Intel are quite obviously not competing even close to that, so yes Intel has quit the high end.
As for HEDT, well we will no doubt see a 32 core 64 thread Zen 3 threadripper and the chances of a 64 core 128 thread Zen 3 is also high, Intel aren't competing anything near that either, not even half that if they bother at all because the mainstream 16 core Ryzen is going to be tough for them to beat convincingly.
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Associate
Wouldn't say quit , just pushed out of but not for lack of trying, there's just only so much flexibility in the company to stray from the beaten track right now untill they're able to sort there fabrication and Uarch out
I'd like to see my 1650 V2 with some IPC tweaks, etc. and on 7nm. It is crazy how well the X79 platform holds up for its age.
Soldato
Love how excited humbug gets about these threads
wrong
Intel's current home consumer high end desktop architecture is at the end of its life and process node won't change that. Even at 7nm all you'd see is higher clock speed but the same core count and ipc, alternatively they could maintain current clocks and try to have 12 core cpu, but considering AMD can actually push ryzen up to 32 cores I wouldn't hold my breath.
Intel shall need something with more cores to stand a chance but in the interim they look to release stop gap after stop gap. And these stop gaps have architecture where power draw scales sharply with core count, where a 16 core part would have 500w tdp
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Deleted member 209350
D
Deleted member 209350
Thats down to the way AMD created their architecture which makes it fairly easy to scale up, whereas intel cant do that.
Id rather intel stay focused on specific markets instead of them trying to dip their feet in wherever they possibly can, would be much better for them to focus on certain product lines.
Caporegime
Rocket Lake is Intel's first new core since Kaby Lake (6700K)
IPC is about 20% higher but that still puts it about 5 to 10% behind Zen 3.
The cores are very large, back ported from 10nm, again this is apparently why they are going back to 8 cores, any more and they are too big, as for power consumption: In mobile form AMD can get 8 Zen 2 cores into a 25 Watt power envelope where even on 10nm Intel can only get 4 into a 28 Watt power envelope, this is not even Zen 3 so the idea that Intel's architecture is better is laughable.
Back ported to 14nm these things will chew up a lot of power, more than current 10'th gen.
In gaming Intel will probably take back the performance crown overall but not by a large amount, stock for stock AMD currently enjoy a 12% performance lead, Reference Toms Hardware.
Even at 1080P Its going to be much less of a lead than Intel had Comet Lake vs Zen 2, single digit numbers and suck down gallons of power to do it. The fact that they are limiting themselves to 8 cores could tip those scales back to Zen 3 longer term.
Intel's main problem is that they still don't have an answer for AMD's chiplet design, theoretically AMD could 'glue' an infinite amount of core chiplets together, rumours are already floating around that Zen 4 with have 96 cores 192 threads, if Intel wanted to make a CPU like that even on 10nm it would be the size of a playing card and about twice AMD's 200 Watt Big Epyc power envelope.
Intel still have a long way to go and AMD are moving forward at breakneck speed, i'm pretty sure Intel didn't expect AMD to lift their gaming performance by 'as much as' 48% over Zen 2, which has put them 20%+ ahead of Intel in the best cases.
IPC is about 20% higher but that still puts it about 5 to 10% behind Zen 3.
The cores are very large, back ported from 10nm, again this is apparently why they are going back to 8 cores, any more and they are too big, as for power consumption: In mobile form AMD can get 8 Zen 2 cores into a 25 Watt power envelope where even on 10nm Intel can only get 4 into a 28 Watt power envelope, this is not even Zen 3 so the idea that Intel's architecture is better is laughable.
Back ported to 14nm these things will chew up a lot of power, more than current 10'th gen.
In gaming Intel will probably take back the performance crown overall but not by a large amount, stock for stock AMD currently enjoy a 12% performance lead, Reference Toms Hardware.
Even at 1080P Its going to be much less of a lead than Intel had Comet Lake vs Zen 2, single digit numbers and suck down gallons of power to do it. The fact that they are limiting themselves to 8 cores could tip those scales back to Zen 3 longer term.
Intel's main problem is that they still don't have an answer for AMD's chiplet design, theoretically AMD could 'glue' an infinite amount of core chiplets together, rumours are already floating around that Zen 4 with have 96 cores 192 threads, if Intel wanted to make a CPU like that even on 10nm it would be the size of a playing card and about twice AMD's 200 Watt Big Epyc power envelope.
Intel still have a long way to go and AMD are moving forward at breakneck speed, i'm pretty sure Intel didn't expect AMD to lift their gaming performance by 'as much as' 48% over Zen 2, which has put them 20%+ ahead of Intel in the best cases.
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Their ideas are already 'cooked up' - they just lacked the 10nm/7nm manufacturing process to implement their new architecture designs.
Bear in mind that Ryzen 5000 series only just managed to match/slightly exceed Intel's 6 year old 14nm process, and 5.5 year old Skylake architecture. Do you think that's impressive? I think it's pathetic it took them that long.
Once intel release a new architecture CPU on a new 10/7nm process, AMD will have no hope of competing.
Mind you - the wise amongst us already know that it doesn't matter if AMD have the best chip - as they lack their own fabs, they're severely limited by the amount of wafers TSMC are able to provide them with.
TSMCs 7nm allocation to AMD in q4 was ~150,000 wafers. That's about what one mega-fab makes in one month. Intel has 16 fabs..
AMD have no hope of competing with Intel in total sales, as they simply lack the wafer capacity to do so.
that’s pretty much what everyone that is unbiased has assessed. Intel doesn’t have HEDT SKU that’s at even half the level if 3000 threadripper. Many would argue the cascade-x is not HEDT as the core counts are absolutely pathetic.
Intel won’t have for 11th gen. and even if they pull out the stops they won’t be able to compete with zen3 based threadripper.
I think you are mistaken the IPC of architecture with overall CPU package performance. Zen architecture is clearly better as it is able to do more than intel’s per clock instruction. Also they operate at a lower power state. That is largely thanks to the better node but efficient architecture also gives this edge.
the very first zen is probably on par with skylake arch and since then it zen+ zen2 have all been better architecture just being bottled neck in other areas such as infinity fabric and cross CCD and CCX latencies etc.
all of these resulted in a package CPU performance behind intel’s skylake refresh^10. And you have to remember each gen since intel’s 6000 series intel has been doing factory overclock ie push the factory GHz higher and higher to give the perception of faster CPU but in fact they are no faster. This is really a feat of intel’s 14nm fab as opposed to the design of the arch.
intel has lots of fab -yes but they also need to make lots of other stuff other than CPUs. The fact that there is no availability on some of the most popular (among intel buyers) intel CPUs goes to show they do have issues with supply or production.
If you got 100 coffee maker doesn’t mean you are going to make more coffee than the bloke with 1 coffee maker and have sufficient supply to feed that coffee maker.
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Caporegime
Look at that above you, he doesn't even realize Intel have shown their
hand and they are still behind AMD.
I know. Anyway people will keep on believing what they want to believe. It is called free will, ignorance or whatever you want to spin it into.
we know intel is not going to have a 10nm for desktop. They will keep 10nm to laptop so they can be run in low core count and power limited fashion. And charge small OEM an arm or leg or “bribe” the large ones (dell) to keep to their SKU exclusively as opposed to AMD. 7nm is like a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow atm as far as intel is concerned. Lol
Nothing has really moved on since the 2011 platform 9 years ago aside from full on HEDT setups where I believe it only goes to 22/44 though you can do 4 socket setup.
The 5000 series is the first platform really that has materially moved on from what was possible with an X79 setup and decent overclock and in many areas that isn't an earth shattering improvement.
And AMD has 4xSMT it can introduce when it wishes, they chose to delay it from Zen 3 but perhaps Zen 4 will get the nod.
Can you imagine 2022 from Intel: "And here we have our brand new top of the line desktop 10nm CPU, our fastest yet - 8 big cores, 4 small cores and 4 hyperthreads and just 250w TDP!
Meanwhile over at AMD: "And here we our new 5nm Threadripper 6990x, 96 cores and 384 threads at ust 250w TDP! We can't show you how far behind Intel is in our Cinebench chart because the scale doesn't drop down that low..."