IPS vs VA

akistzortzis · 28 Jul 2014 at 00:34

I have been looking to replace an old and damaged 24" BenQ and for first time I did a little bit of reading on the subject. Very briefly I learned there are 3 types of panels, TN for best latency but worst viewing angles and colours, VA for best colours, blacks, contrast but with "black crush" problems which literally every reviewer is quick to point out, and IPS as the kings of panels usually costing more, with extra wide angles and adequate latencies.

However after reading so many reviews which consistently bring up the "black crush problem" that plague the VA panels, I believe that there may be a bit of brainwashing going on.

I got a Dell U2412M from a friend who wants to sell it to me second hand and I set it up and ran some tests. It is a 1980x1200 IPS screen. It is perfect in every way except if you have a black background. First of all it is not black, it is a kind of silvery grey. Most importantly as you are looking dead centre head on, there is a glow that comes in from both sides of the screen and towards the centre. Move your head one or two inches up and the glow gets bigger, occupying a larger area of the screen. Move a bit to the sides and the glow gets less on one side and more on the other side. It is as if someone is shining a torch onto the screen from somewhere far. I am not talking about white bleeding here which this particular Dell did not suffer at all from.

In other words on an IPS panel (most made by LG by the way) there is no black colour and there is a ridiculous glow which is extremely distracting. Now, if I were reviewing an IPS panel I would say "do not even bother testing a black screen and do not even bother examining viewing angles on a black screen, it is a joke". But guess what, I have not yet seen such a review.

But when I read reviews about VA panels they consistently bring up the problem of the "black crush" which apparently is looking at a black screen with very dark objects/writing on it and if you are looking head on those very faint objects will not show until you move a bit off the centre. I have not yet examined a VA screen close, but it appears to me that I'd much rather that "problem" than not having a black screen at all, ever, and having a glare and a glow in my face.

So I am asking here owners of VA screens, in particular the BenQ GW2450 or GW2750 series - how bad is the "black crush" problem really? Could you please describe it to me so I may be able to compare it with the IPS problems?

Many thanks

james.miller · 28 Jul 2014 at 00:54

I've got a gw2760hs, blacks are very good on it. No real black crush that I've noticed. It does have some uniformity issues though, but that's par for course really. Not a deal breaker for me.

Elevon · 28 Jul 2014 at 14:57

akistzortzis said:
So I am asking here owners of VA screens, in particular the BenQ GW2450 or GW2750 series - how bad is the "black crush" problem really? Could you please describe it to me so I may be able to compare it with the IPS problems?

Many thanks

I've just purchased a BenQ EW2440L monitor(AMVA panel) and absolutey love it,I did calibrate it via my SpyderExpress calibration tool and have no issues with the IQ,blacks are great(depth is amazing) colours ,viewing angles etc gaming is even very good IMHO,no black crush that I've noticed and uniformity is very good on mine.

I actually prefer VA panels over TN and IPS(due to superior blacks and contrast),yes I know it's a preference thing but end of the day I have no complaints.

I 'll say there is one issue related to Nvidia via HDMI (DVI connection is not effected by this)it does not give you full RGB 0 to 255,it defaults to 16-235 so you are missing out on full RGB range,however there is a full RGB software tool you can download for Nvidia cards.

More info here on that http://pcmonitors.info/articles/correcting-hdmi-colour-on-nvidia-and-amd-gpus/#!prettyPhoto ,link to tool is at third solution option,yes mine is set to full RGB

.

Haggisman · 28 Jul 2014 at 16:22

I was under the impression that the main negative of VA panels (for gaming at least) is the relatively poor response times and ghosting, with TN being the fastest but worst picture quality.

DrBombcrater · 28 Jul 2014 at 17:56

akistzortzis said:
So I am asking here owners of VA screens, in particular the BenQ GW2450 or GW2750 series - how bad is the "black crush" problem really?

Black crush isn't a huge problem with the current generation of VA panels. It's there, but quite faint and subtle - not, in my experience, anywhere near as in-your-face as the glow and black level issues with IPS panels.

The GW2x50 models use older AMVA panels, though, so I wouldn't recommend them. The GW2460, GW2760, BL3200PT and some others use the latest AMVA panels that have almost eliminated black crush, to the point where you'd have to look quite hard to see it.

Elevon · 28 Jul 2014 at 18:06

Haggisman said:
I was under the impression that the main negative of VA panels (for gaming at least) is the relatively poor response times and ghosting, with TN being the fastest but worst picture quality.

TNs are the fastest but you have to remember all LCDs have been improving over the years, that goes for TN,IPS,VA etc in terms of speed,they have come quite far from the old days.
I've AMA setting at the default of high for overdrive and find it fine in gaming.

You can argue die hard speed gamers may want a 120/144Hz monitor but I would rather have the superior blacks,contrast,colours and viewing angles of a better panel like AMVA for my gaming and general usage.
No real right or wrong in what YOU PREFER.

Elevon · 28 Jul 2014 at 18:11

DrBombcrater said:
Black crush isn't a huge problem with the current generation of VA panels. It's there, but quite faint and subtle - not, in my experience, anywhere near as in-your-face as the glow and black level issues with IPS panels.

The GW2x50 models use older AMVA panels, though, so I wouldn't recommend them. The GW2460, GW2760, BL3200PT and some others use the latest AMVA panels that have almost eliminated black crush, to the point where you'd have to look quite hard to see it.

My EW2440L is one the newest models released ,flicker free etc and the panel is latest AMVA,as you know you can't beat a decent VA for blacks.

. The EW2740L is now available in the UK at a price of around £210, across Europe for around €300 and in the US for under $400. The EW2440L is expected to arrive in the UK and EU in March 2014 at a retail price of around £160. The 24″ model is available in the US for around $250.

http://pcmonitors.info/benq/benq-ew2440l-and-ew2740l/ .

Ulti-Resis · 30 Jul 2014 at 13:55

One of the most awful things ever invented were LED Edge lit monitors and TV's, the clouding, uniformity and bleed issues are awful. Give me a tube backlit or full array over edge lit any day of the week.

Plasma cannot be beaten in terms of TV/movies and gaming but the risks of screen burn are there especially early in the lifecycle of a panel. Until the manufacturers get their act together on quantum dot, OLED or a newer tech and make them affordable to the masses we're stuck with the LED issues and the various panel issues we have right now. None are perfect and no doubt anything new will come with a whole new set of issues.

It is very difficult to choose a screen because there is always a compromise that has to be made and it comes down to what compromise is most acceptable to you personally.

RussD · 1 Aug 2014 at 20:22

I have this monitor Dell U2412M and it's calibrated via a Spyder 4 Elite and my Blacks are BLACK. Not ever heard of Black Crush. (do you lot make up these words) No light leak either. I use mine for Photography. (Photoshop/Lightroom. etc.etc). Best Monitor I have ever had, though my DGM was good until it went t*t up after 2 years.

james.miller · 1 Aug 2014 at 20:33

You've never heard.....of black crush??

?

Rofflay · 1 Aug 2014 at 22:21

Dell and black levels, I laughed

Dell are nearly all ips and nearly all of them have silver blacks even in the daytime. You can improve them on the sparkle coating by keeping the lights on but guess what? The black crush kills shadow detail.

This is how my old IPS looks at the black bars. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2m1wKyVt5fY

Ulti-Resis · 2 Aug 2014 at 13:19

Well technically yes, you could argue that all of these terms are "made up". They are made up for a good reason: To describe the various faults, failures and issues related to displays.

We don't just make things up for the sake of it or pretend these things exist to confuse the uninformed masses, they are 100% real proven and tested problems. The manufacturers are well aware of them too but as usual, it is all about profits, costs and affordability to "consumers" (cash cows).

NZXT30 · 2 Aug 2014 at 14:57

My next monitor will be VA for sure with elite dangerous and star citizen coming up black levels will be very important. Seiki 40" VA 4k monitor sounds like a dream come true.

Ulti-Resis · 2 Aug 2014 at 15:45

Already got one of the Acer G-sync 4K on order myself, due in September 5th.

kaka4200 · 2 Aug 2014 at 20:04

I would go for the VA, it has really fast response time compared to IPS. In general IPS is a bit more pricy aswell

old gamer · 2 Aug 2014 at 22:57

Ive had ips,tn and pva and pva was my fav for colour and image quality, i still regret selling it

Ulti-Resis · 3 Aug 2014 at 16:58

Well the Acer being a TN I may find it isn't for me but then it's not going to be mission critical on viewing angles or perfect colours but if blacks and bleed etc are cack then I may end up sending it back. Improvements have been achieved in TN panels now so I'll give it a go and see how I feel.

Sadly there are no affordable choices of a 4K2K VA right now, TN is the only option at under £599. 4K IPS is around the corner but to be honest, I'm not keen on having IPS and they are likely to cost more.