Iran captures British Sailors
- Thread starter VIRII
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You bring such intelligence to these discussions.
Soldato
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VIRII said:
Maybe because the US always claims the moral high ground and people have a natural desire to highlight hypocrisy when their actions do not match their retoric.
If the Navy and Bliar are telling the truth and the RN Personnel were not in Iranian waters, I am sure that the tracking equipment will show this and that they will be released in due course.
There is of course always the risk that the Americans were fiddling with the NAVSTAR GPS accuracy parameters and it will be impossible accurately to determine where they were - if this is the case, I'm sure that our allies will be only too happy to help out with the required data.
I wonder when the Americans will release the Iranian diplomats that they kidnapped in Iraq?
I think that the Iranian regime, like Saddam Hussein's earlier US supported regime are appalling.VIRII said:
There are many other regimes around the world that I also think are appalling, for example in Zimbabwe, Burma, Israel, etc., etc., etc.
I think that ALL religious fundamentalists - Christian, Jewish, Muslim and whatever else are appalling.
There, happy now?
As do_ron_ron has so helpfully pointed out "The US always claims the moral high ground and [I have a desire] to highlight hypocrisy when their actions do not match their rhetoric".
The US administration and its puppet NuLabor pretend to be acting on behalf of the citizens of the UK - they are not acting in my name or that of a great many other people. None of the other evil regimes make such a claim.
Just because there are a small number of greedy, racist war-mongers in the West doesn't justify the actions of Bush or Bliar who are in no position to preach to anyone - even the regime in Iran. Perhaps if the USA & UK were to try and gain the moral high ground, they would garner more support and be in a position to exert some influence over evil regimes elsewhere - rather than setting them up and supporting them.
As to your previous post - please read my earlier responses. Incidentally,
- I don't think that using the arrest of 15 British sailors as an "opportunity [to take out] some [Iranian] nuclear stations" (whatever they may be) is either proportionate or reasonable - it is simply opportunism and deliberate escalation which is likely to endanger the 15 British sailors
- I don't think that we are in much of a position to preach to the Iranians on the deficiencies of their courts. Perhaps if we spoke out about Guantanamo Bay, Extraordinary Rendition and torture by the Americans, and about the appalling behavior of the Israelis, we would have a more valid argument
- I see no reason why the 15 British sailors should not be kept in custody while the Iranians investigate whether they are spies
Soldato
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Shackley said:
It's not proportionate, hence the term "oportunity" suggesting that there would be a wider agenda behind such a move.
Although make no doubt that Iran are asking for it, by wantonly disobeying the international community and many countries who military power far exceed their own.
You could say that they have a 'right' to the same technology as we do, but this is a mean world where 'rights' are rarely enforced - particularly when that 'right' might represent a threat to our safety. Therefore, our concerns are clearly selfish.
Britain represents the British and I think you'll find we've secure freedom for the dubious characters that were in Guantanamo bay. If the UK made efforts for those swine, then we have every right to move heaven and earth to secure our servicemen back.
The legitimacy of their custody depends on whether they were abducted or captured, which in turn leads to the question of whose waters they were in.
Why have so many iranians fled the country when the Islamic Regime came to power some 35 years ago? Why do so many iranians still not want to live in their home country? Why do they have such 'controversial' methods in their laws and ways? Why does 1 nation need to have the same religion, or else....
Shackley said:
I think military strikes at nuclear power stations that are in the process of being built despite UN sanctions is perfectly valid. Why don't you?
This is of course as stated in my post AFTER diplomacy has failed and AFTER sanctions have failed. Perhaps you can tell me what YOU think we should do .........
Why? How does that answer my question as to whether or not all courts are equal and whether or not Iranian courts are or are not political pawns of a dictator? It doesn't. Would you like to try again?Shackley said:
Shackley said:
Aren't you one of the people who is against detaining people without charge for more than 24 hours or something? Sudden change of principle is it? I thought you dislike dhypocrisy....
Shackley said:
Not so aware that public rallies and marches are organised for it neither does it make front page news.
As such many people are unaware of it. Guantanomo immediately comes to mind when people think of America+torture, the other stuff doesnt.
Soldato
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VIRII said:
My point was that the US claims moral justification for their actions, Iran etc does not. All human rights abuses should be condemned regardless of the country involved.
I don't know how many have left or why. How many have left? Do you have any independent figures?Dr_Evil said:
I guess that many Iranians may think thet we have 'controversial' methods in our laws. I honestly don't know much about their legal system, but it is their system, not ours.Dr_Evil said:
Do they not have the right to that choice? Personally, I favour freedom of worship and an entirely secular administrative and legal system. However, if a majority disagree (e.g. in Iran), I guess that it is their right. I also oppose anyone forcing others to accept their religion or punishing those who do not adhere to it.Dr_Evil said:
What does any of this have to do with the Iranians arresting 15 British sailors?