Is a AV Receiver really necessary?

Flying Gribble · 5 Dec 2007 at 20:15

I'm contemplating replacing the various AV bits by an HTPC and am wondering whether it's really necessary to have a separate receiver.

My current system consists of a 7 year old NS-DV55 Pioneer 5.1 home cinema system (DVD/amp/receiver/speakers) and a Pace Twin Freeview PVR hooked up to an 32" flat CRT TV. I've also got the wife's karaoke machine (DVD player) plugged into the Pioneer :rolleyes:

I'm contemplating swapping it all for a reasonably powerful HTPC (capable of playing recent games) with Vista Premium, a decent soundcard, a freeview TV card and a set of Logitech Z5500 speakers. I'd miss out any AV receiver. In a year or so we'd get an HD TV. We're far from audiophiles, but watch quite a few movies. We've no intention of ever getting a console, but would have a Blu-ray and/or HD-DVD drive in the HTPC.

Does this look OK or am I barking mad to rely on the amp in the Z5500's and the scaling on the graphics card?

Edit : Damn trypo in the title - "an AV receiver". I did get my GCSE English, honest!

Mr_Sukebe · 5 Dec 2007 at 21:22

I'm confused as to why you'd bother with a PC capable of dealing with HD-DVD and BD.
You really do need a half decent TV and sound system to take advantage of them.
Frankly you'd be better off keeping your dosh and splurging it on making the most of normal DVD.

darreny · 5 Dec 2007 at 21:36

dont know if the problems the same with the z5500s but with the 680s while theyre good with action films theyre not very good with quieter films, the sub is far too powerful for the satelites so you end up turning it up to hear ppl talking then turn it down in other parts because of excessive bass.

Flying Gribble · 5 Dec 2007 at 21:39

Mr_Sukebe said:
I'm confused as to why you'd bother with a PC capable of dealing with HD-DVD and BD.
You really do need a half decent TV and sound system to take advantage of them.
Frankly you'd be better off keeping your dosh and splurging it on making the most of normal DVD.

Well, I can't afford to get both at once, and the TV is more difficult to persuade the wife about. There would be about 9 months when we'd have the HTPC and the old TV, before we get an HD TV. The HD-DVD/BD is really for then. The Pioneer has developed some problems and needs replacing in the next few months, and the Pace has limitations that I'd like to overcome.

Are the Z5500's that bad? Does the THX certification count for nothing?

One other point is that we seldom listen to music though the speakers - that's mostly via headphones.

Alexrose1uk · 5 Dec 2007 at 22:05

Nope, THX doesnt really mean much on (/especially on) cheaper systems. There are FAR better stuff out there than logitech speakers. Really.
Although there are exceptions, it tends to be a general rule you get what you paid for, and logitech are certainly cheap in the scheme of things!
Also, I'd agree with whats been said above, you really won't get any benefit from getting HD/B-Ray unless you have a HD TV, so its kinda a false economy to do it now, when there will likely be better value players available in the 9 months you mentioned til you got your HDTV.

Flying Gribble · 6 Dec 2007 at 07:42

OK, so what should I get instead, for a similar price - or how much would I need to spend to get something worthwhile for my purposes? I can use a DVD drive I have knocking around instead of the BD/HD one for the 9 months.

Alexrose1uk · 6 Dec 2007 at 09:57

You can get entry level AV systems for reasonable prices if you look around. I went into 'slightly more well off noises' recently, and they offered me a HDMI-capable AV reciever and one of thier speaker packages for well below what they were selling them for normally (offered me a packaged for just over £300, that was selling for about 400). Its more expensive than the logitechs, but even a decent speaker/sub kit and standalone AV reciever would give you a much better sound, especially if you have a smaller room so not as much power is needed, would perhaps be best to look over at Avforums for some pointers towards the best bang for buck on a limited budget though, or pointers towards the better budget systems, because some have thier own issues

Perhaps also look at a 32" Panasonic TX32-LMD70 or LXD70. You can get them for around £500 (LMD definately a chunk under), but they apparently feature one of the BEST SD pictures available in anywhere near the price bracket for any HD TV, and I'd be guessing you were going to spend at least a few hundred on that HTPC anyway, so you might benefit right now more from getting the nice new TV and sound system, whereas you'd be sitting on wasted money if you went HTPC now without them, as cheaper, better HD parts are right around the corner all the time.

badbob · 6 Dec 2007 at 11:42

AV amp + 5.1 speakers > Logitech 5500.

You really to get the whole lot, if I had your system I would buy

Display, 1080p
AV amp £300 minimum
5.1 speakers £700 minimum
HD player, up to you whether go down HTPC with two/single LG combo drive(s) or PS3, Xbox 360 or seperate Blu-Ray and HD-DVD players (or wait for combo players)

Yes it's a lot of money, but it's a lot of gear too

Corasik · 6 Dec 2007 at 13:38

PC Speakers are no match for an AV system. Their specs are generally incomplete (they rarely if ever show what distortion level, how many channels driven, or what frequency range was used during the test).

THX by itself is meaningless, Infact all THX is really is a set of filters that Lucas likes personally. Me, I find a THX filtered soundtrack to be extremely lacking in high frequency response, and have my AV Processor's THX filters disabled. The only time I enable THX is when an old 'badly recorded' movie has a lot of hiss, the THX filters do tend to reduce it a little.

Flying Gribble · 6 Dec 2007 at 14:41

badbob said:
AV amp + 5.1 speakers > Logitech 5500.

You really to get the whole lot, if I had your system I would buy

Display, 1080p
AV amp £300 minimum
5.1 speakers £700 minimum
HD player, up to you whether go down HTPC with two/single LG combo drive(s) or PS3, Xbox 360 or seperate Blu-Ray and HD-DVD players (or wait for combo players)

Yes it's a lot of money, but it's a lot of gear too

OK. The Z5500 can be had for £200. The direct replacement you're suggesting is a minimum of £1,000. Given my comments about not listening to music, mostly movies, is that really 5 times better?

I wish there was somewhere to compare the two!

badbob · 6 Dec 2007 at 14:44

is that really 5 times better

IMO yes. Sound and build quality, upgradable, replaceable parts (standard AV gear) and proper audio/video switching. Better quality components, and power amp stages.

If your Logitech sub/amp blows your unit is useless. If the av amp blows just replace it. If the sub blows pickup another subwoofer. If you fry your centre speaker buy another one. You can also sell individual parts and then replace it. Can you just sell the Logitech subwoofer? No because the amplifiers for the 5 speakers are inside the unit.

darreny · 6 Dec 2007 at 17:03

badbob said:
IMO yes. Sound and build quality, upgradable, replaceable parts (standard AV gear) and proper audio/video switching. Better quality components, and power amp stages.

If your Logitech sub/amp blows your unit is useless. If the av amp blows just replace it. If the sub blows pickup another subwoofer. If you fry your centre speaker buy another one. You can also sell individual parts and then replace it. Can you just sell the Logitech subwoofer? No because the amplifiers for the 5 speakers are inside the unit.

you just contradicted yourself a little as the logitechs are prob cheaper than any single component you mentioned.

i'd say if you already had the logitechs use em for a while if not check a few combo's from yamaha and others if on a budget. the logitechs will seem 'wow' at first with things like 'True Lies' but for more subtle films they are bad as my reason above, they are really meant for games and this is where they excel.

Flying Gribble · 6 Dec 2007 at 17:04

Thanks for the help guys. A lot to think about!

badbob · 6 Dec 2007 at 18:44

darreny said:
you just contradicted yourself a little as the logitechs are prob cheaper than any single component you mentioned.

i'd say if you already had the logitechs use em for a while if not check a few combo's from yamaha and others if on a budget. the logitechs will seem 'wow' at first with things like 'True Lies' but for more subtle films they are bad as my reason above, they are really meant for games and this is where they excel.

I don't think you quite understand. If the Logitech sub blows the rest of the system is useless.

But with seperates they're all standard gear, so if say the av amp blows you can just replace the av amp and nothing else.

iraiguana · 6 Dec 2007 at 19:43

For entry level system you could go for more budget than what has been suggested above.

The high street store in red for audio equipment has been mentioned and would be the best place for you to get into this. They have various equipment in your price range, which can then be upgraded later should you develop more demanding tastes.

The logitech z5500 are very good PC speakers but are not a good AV set-up. They do not fill big rooms as well and rely on THX as their selling point which little real world sound quality guarantee.

vintage-x · 6 Dec 2007 at 22:49

tbh if you watch a lot of movies (like i do) then a decent av amp + seperates is defently worth it.
I spent £850 on my current system earler this year and it is used everyday to either watch tv movies paly games ect. Its the best £850 ive ever spent. Ive owned no less than 4 htib systems over the years and the sound qulity with my current system is on another level to all those combined. A bonus with a seprates system is that you can also connect all your video into it and use it as a switch box with only having to have one cable going into your tv

Flying Gribble · 10 May 2008 at 20:18

Sorry to resurrect this thread, but I thought those people who gave me advice would like to know the outcome.

I picked up an Onkyo 606, KEF 1005.2 package and a new DVD player today. Haven't had time to set them up yet.

Thanks for the help guys.

nikebee · 10 May 2008 at 20:24

Flying Gribble said:
Sorry to resurrect this thread, but I thought those people who gave me advice would like to know the outcome.

I picked up an Onkyo 606, KEF 1005.2 package and a new DVD player today. Haven't had time to set them up yet.

Thanks for the help guys.

Good to hear

How much did that little bundle of joy set you back??

Flying Gribble · 10 May 2008 at 21:26

£799. Just need to persuade the wife that the TV needs replacing and then I can start making the most of it!

Jonnycoupe · 10 May 2008 at 21:43

badbob said:
IMO yes. Sound and build quality, upgradable, replaceable parts (standard AV gear) and proper audio/video switching. Better quality components, and power amp stages.

If your Logitech sub/amp blows your unit is useless. If the av amp blows just replace it.

LOL

Useless £200 sounds better than a simple £300 replace.

As already highlighted but seemed to pass you by.

Is a AV Receiver really necessary?

Man of Honour