Is a good 4G setup capable of competing with Starlink in rural locations?

[justgottaclimb]

I'll be traveling across the UK in my van next year (England, Scotland, Wales) and typically spending my time in the most remote areas I can find in the mountains.

I'll be working full-time, so stable internet is essential. Naturally, I'm drawn to Starlink, however, there are a few things I'm not a fan of.

I haven't got an easy way to place it permanently (limited space on the roof), the cost is significantly higher (not a deal breaker), I often like to be around trees (not ideal) and I wouldn't be able to use it on the move (frustrating).

It also appears to draw quite a lot more power than a 4G setup, but I may be wrong there.

I like 4G since it'd be permanent, the antenna would be far more compact and wouldn't require as much space on the roof, convenient to feed the wires, small, can use on the go, cheap, etc.

If I were to get a great router, and a great antenna (which soon adds up to almost the same as the Starlink hardware) would I likely be free from dead spots? I don't necessarily need high-speed internet - probably 2-3MBit.

Any help/advice is appreciated. I know that Starlink is the obvious answer, but it doesn't come without its complications.

 

[WJA96]

Mikrotik LHGG CAT6 = job done.

 

[sandys]

If you are remote there is unlikely to be a phone signal, generally targeted at areas of population, so 4G router probably not the solution.

I go to loads of places in my van with an assortment of sims and good signal is a rare thing once you are very remote.

I'd be inclined to have both if money is no object.

 

[Caged]

Get a router with two SIM trays and/or two LTE modems in and get a SIM card for two networks - mixing something like EE and Vodafone should provide you with a really good experience.

If you're in a van then the power draw of Starlink is also something that needs to be considered.

 

[Rroff]

Highly varied - I live in a rural location but fortunately have EE towers which give up to 80 down 30 up on my cat 4 device and recent network changes mean 150 down is possible on cat 6+ though upload doesn't change much.

You only have to go a few dozen metres from my house and it drops to more like 18/5 though.

 

[justgottaclimb]

Mikrotik LHGG CAT6 = job done.

Thanks. I took a look at this, but it looks like it's pretty bulky and requires setting up in each location? I almost feel like Starlink would be an easier option than this. Can I ask for the router that you'd choose to pair it with?

If you are remote there is unlikely to be a phone signal, generally targeted at areas of population, so 4G router probably not the solution.

I go to loads of places in my van with an assortment of sims and good signal is a rare thing once you are very remote.

I'd be inclined to have both if money is no object.

This was my concern, but I wasn't sure just how good a decent setup would be able to do. I've read a lot of people saying it's helped them achieve a signal when their phone couldn't, but admittedly I'm probably going to be even more rural than they are!

Both is KIND of an option, however, I'd rather avoid it if I could, as it'd mean another data plan also. I wouldn't want to remove the sim from my phone in as I sometimes need to get messages.

Get a router with two SIM trays and/or two LTE modems in and get a SIM card for two networks - mixing something like EE and Vodafone should provide you with a really good experience.

If you're in a van then the power draw of Starlink is also something that needs to be considered.

I had thought about this, but I am concerned about the completely remote wilderness as mentioned above.

Can I ask what router/antenna you'd go for in this situation?

The draw of Starlink is definitely a concern. I'm hearing up to 150W, plus the inverter, along with everything else I need to power. In a bleak British winter, that's a lot just for internet!

Highly varied - I live in a rural location but fortunately have EE towers which give up to 80 down 30 up on my cat 4 device and recent network changes mean 150 down is possible on cat 6+ though upload doesn't change much.

You only have to go a few dozen metres from my house and it drops to more like 18/5 though.

Good to know, thank you. Can I ask what router/antenna (if you have one) you have?

 

[Caged]

I'd pair a Teltonika RUTX11 or RUTX12 with a vehicle roof antenna like their PR1KCL28.

But if you want to go camping literally in the wilderness then your decision is made for you really.

 

[Rroff]

Thanks. I took a look at this, but it looks like it's pretty bulky and requires setting up in each location? I almost feel like Starlink would be an easier option than this. Can I ask for the router that you'd choose to pair it with?

This was my concern, but I wasn't sure just how good a decent setup would be able to do. I've read a lot of people saying it's helped them achieve a signal when their phone couldn't, but admittedly I'm probably going to be even more rural than they are!

Both is KIND of an option, however, I'd rather avoid it if I could, as it'd mean another data plan also. I wouldn't want to remove the sim from my phone in as I sometimes need to get messages.

I had thought about this, but I am concerned about the completely remote wilderness as mentioned above.

Can I ask what router/antenna you'd go for in this situation?

The draw of Starlink is definitely a concern. I'm hearing up to 150W, plus the inverter, along with everything else I need to power. In a bleak British winter, that's a lot just for internet!

Good to know, thank you. Can I ask what router/antenna (if you have one) you have?

I have a Tp Link MR6400 - these days it is worth going for a cat 6+ router though.

 

[justgottaclimb]

I have a Tp Link MR6400 - these days it is worth going for a cat 6+ router though.

Thank you.

I'm not too clued up on the CAT differences - is it capable of superior performance over WiFi, or just ethernet?

I'd pair a Teltonika RUTX11 or RUTX12 with a vehicle roof antenna like their PR1KCL28.

But if you want to go camping literally in the wilderness then your decision is made for you really.

Much appreciated. Would you have thought that antenna would be superior to the likes of this? https://www.amazon.co.uk/Poynting-4G-XPOL-A0002-Polarised-Directional-Outdoor/dp/B00C1DGGKC/

 

[Caged]

My answers to your questions are based on what you've previously said in this thread - you didn't like the suggestion made by @WJA96 of a highly directional MikroTik device that needed setting up, so I suggested an omnidirectional roof antenna. Now you're asking about a directional antenna that requires setting up, it doesn't make sense.

 

[justgottaclimb]

My answers to your questions are based on what you've previously said in this thread - you didn't like the suggestion made by @WJA96 of a highly directional MikroTik device that needed setting up, so I suggested an omnidirectional roof antenna. Now you're asking about a directional antenna that requires setting up, it doesn't make sense.

It was more the size/shape of that one that bothered me, along with the fact that I read it required setup each time via Ethernet. Happy to be corrected, is this just a first-time setup thing? Would I arrive at a location, plonk it on the roof, and not have to worry after I've set it up the first time?

 

[justgottaclimb]

Looking into the MikroTik devices - am I right in assuming that it would only provide a wired connection, and I'd need to connect it to a router in order to share the signal with my phone/Chromebook, etc?

@WJA96 - I apologise for not considering the device initially. I assumed it was just a very bulky antenna. I realise I'm now wrong on both counts!

 

[WJA96]

Thanks. I took a look at this, but it looks like it's pretty bulky and requires setting up in each location? I almost feel like Starlink would be an easier option than this. Can I ask for the router that you'd choose to pair it with?

Yes, it’s a large, directional, antenna. It’s specifically designed for locations where a mobile phone doesn’t even pick up a signal.

It’s powered off PoE, 12V, 24 V or 48V from your vans electrical system.

So my thinking is you have a pole mounted on the van. When you park up, you slot the antenna over the pole, hook up the power and you’re away.

And it IS the router. You would want a wireless access point - something like a Ubiquiti UniFi UAP-AC-Mesh would be where I’d be looking.

If you want something smaller then there is the MikroTik SXT LTE CAT6 which has two SIM slots and is also the router.

 

[WJA96]

Would I arrive at a location, plonk it on the roof, and not have to worry after I've set it up the first time?

Yes.

 

[WJA96]

Actually, thinking about this, a Uniquiti UniFi UAP-AC-IW would only need 1 PoE power source because the access point has a PoE pass-through port And you could power the LHG or SXT off the access point.

MikroTik also make a device called wAP LTE which has the AC access point built into the 4G modem, but it’s not a particularly sensitive antenna so I wouldn’t recommend it for remote locations.

Finally, MikroTik make a vehicle specific device - ltAP LTE6 which has a sensitive LTE antenna array, three SIM slots and 2.4GHz access point in one box. It’s also a vehicle tracker with GPS. Again, the antenna isn’t as good as the LHG, but it might be good enough.

 

[Caged]

With a directional antenna you would need to point it at the cell tower. These recommendations really depend on how remote you want to get.

 

[WJA96]

Thank you.

I'm not too clued up on the CAT differences - is it capable of superior performance over WiFi, or just ethernet?

It’s to do with carrier aggregation. Current basic modems deliver about 150Mbps download speed. That’s theoretical, you won’t ever see that. 150 down/50 up devices are termed CAT4.

Some carriers (EE definitely) allow you to aggregate streams so you can combine two 150Mbps streams to get a single (theoretical) 300Mbps stream and devices that do that are described as CAT6. Confusingly, there is another standard 300 down/75 up which is CAT5. Which makes zero sense.

This aggregation can get quite extreme - Mikrotik’s latest Chateau LTE is currently rated CAT24 so theoretically it is aggregating 8 data streams and if you are in the right place at the right time you can see gigabit download speeds on 4G with such equipment.

For what you want, CAT3, 4 or 6 will be fine. One nice feature of the Mikritik devices is the 4G modems are all mini-PCIe cards so if they release a CAT18 modem for the LHG you can swap them out. It’s a pain to do it because of the casing is put together, but it is possible.

 

[TOW]

Can't you simply pair to your phone's data while on the move? When driving around, you're more likely to find data signal, I'd imagine? (I'm sure not some locations, but generally yes).

Then you have starlink for when you're static/remote without access to cellular data...

Best of both worlds

 

[Troop]

Looking into the MikroTik devices - am I right in assuming that it would only provide a wired connection, and I'd need to connect it to a router in order to share the signal with my phone/Chromebook, etc?

@WJA96 - I apologise for not considering the device initially. I assumed it was just a very bulky antenna. I realise I'm now wrong on both counts!

We do this in our Campervan, very remote areas = no signal, live in rural Wales and have covered Scotland many times. (Never use campsites always wild camping)

For Scotland EE is the best all-rounder.

We use Teltonica router fixed permanently to the Van with a fixed roof antenna, also carry 2 other mobile MiFi routers on different carriers.
Carry EE, Three, and o2 sims with us and our mobiles.

You still have to move your chosen location sometimes to find a signal, many very mountainous/remote areas are just a NO go for any signal.
Starlink may work it those locations but the 100w power draw will kill your batteries even with solar unless it's the summer months.

The one thing that will help you is, be as high up as you can location wise and have a good antenna setup on the roof, inside is just a faraday cage.

 

[Terminal_Boy]

If you are remote there is unlikely to be a phone signal, generally targeted at areas of population, so 4G router probably not the solution.

I go to loads of places in my van with an assortment of sims and good signal is a rare thing once you are very remote.

I'd be inclined to have both if money is no object.

Correct. Cellular base stations are expensive, so they are placed in locations where they take enough traffic to pay their way.

If you need to guarantee your ability to make calls or send/receive data in remote rural locations, you need a satellite based system.