Is a modern GPU (eg: NVidia 4070) a total waste of time on an old CPU (eg: Intel I7 4790K)? - Anyone running a modern(ish) GPU on an old CPU?

[NeilF]

I currently have an Intel I7 4790K with an NVidia 1070. It's been running everything fine (@1440p) until recently, where now, even on lowest detail, I'm finding Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 is a tad laggy/juddery at times. The GPU is reading 90+% in use and giving about 45-60fps. The 8 CPU cores seem less than half used, but with one being about 70-75% in use.

I was planning on upgrading to an NVidia 4070, but my fear is it will have minimal impact on the performance of say CoD:MW2. With a suggestion on another thread I change my resolution down to 720x480 and my frame rate only increased minimally, while the GPU usage seemed to drop significantly down. That said, in blurry 720x480 even though the frame rate was still much the same (55-70), it did seem smoother somehow unless I was imagining it!?


So, I'd hate to spend all that money (£500+) and not get that extra bit of actual smoothness of frame rate/game play I'm after. But if it does improve visual quality and give me a smooth(er) 75fps, then bingo! (Yes I know a modern CPU could double/tripple performance)

Is anyone able to comment on this? ie: Anyone running a modern(ish) GPU on an old CPU like mine?


ps: One option I am looking in to is to see if I can get a friend who has an I7 processor (not quite as fast as mine) but with a 3070 will let me try CoD:MW2 on his PC to get a feel of how it then performs. ie: Because if it seems OK, my 4790K with a 4070 will only be better still.

 

[NeilF]

Just buy the 4070 and if your CPU is maxed out then replace it. Simples.

Problem with that is £

A whole new system (which is what we're then talking about) is like £1500, plus all the migration/setup hassle etc.

Meanwhile, a mate of mine has moved to consoles because of this very reason, where a PS5 or XBox Series X can be had for less than the price of a 4070.

 

[NeilF]

OK! Form a line to slap me

While looking around my PC's config, I noticed in the BIOS my memory was running at 1600mHz. It's 2400mHz memory. The manual mentioned you could enable XML memory via a switch on the motherboard. I did this, a light came on and then my memory seemed to be running at its full speed.

It's been like that (wrong and under performing) since I built the system 9yrs ago

In CoD:MW2...

Before (about 62fps):-

After (about 75fps vsync is on):-

That's a 15-20% increase

 

[NeilF]

If a 4070 will clear out your bank account then perhaps get a 4060?

I wouldn't want to waste money on an expensive GPU like a 4070 either.

If a console can serve all the needs of your mate then I'm curious why he chose a pc in the first place. The stuff I do can't be done on a console like installing mods in Skyrim and playing FPS games with a mouse etc

For the sake of an extra £150 the 4070 seems a seems a sensible 1440p performance boost over the 4060.

If in a few years time it then finally makes sense for me to splurge another £1000 on a PC, then a 4070 will at least be a reasonable card for it.


My mate is in the same boat as me. ie: An old PC which would have cost four figures to replace. Hence him going PS5 to cater for modern games. And yes, I am concerned about going down a console route for the stuff (& certain game titles) that is PC only.

 

[NeilF]

Upgrade the rest first. I always threads such as these as desperation, no offense intended to you and others.

Understood, but, "the rest" is over four figures?

ie: A graphics card should hopefully give a reasonable boost in visuals speed/quality wise, with nothing more complicated than unplugging the old card and plugging the new one in, for say £500.

Where as, "the rest" will result a total system rebuild/transfer (& I have a lot of stuff as I have web development stuff and the like), for say £1200.

And all for what at the moment is CoD:MW2 having lower visual quality/speed than I'd ideally like. £1200 just doesn't seem justifed to me for that one current quibble. £500 to iron out the current issue and buy me some more time seems more logical? Or just give in and get a console?

 

[NeilF]

QUESTION: Would a modern GPU actually free up any processing from the CPU that older GPUs wouldn't?

ie: Is there hardware on say a 4070 that isn't on a 1070 that would then mean my CPU would be doing less with a 4070 than with a 1070? So a game (or D3D12 etc) realises hardware X is available on the 4070 and uses it, instead of the CPU having to perform that processing?

Make sense?

 

[NeilF]

Oh, and of course the other thing to consider is if I get a new GPU from a 'river' then I can carefully try it, and if really doesn't give me the improvement I'm after, return it.

 

[NeilF]

You're obviously trying to live beyond your means! You don't need to spend four figures if you cant afford it.

I've just ordered a 2TB NVME m.2 for £79.99. My next CPU upgrade will probably be a 5800x which are £165 used. I can get a 32Gb 3600 DDR4 kit for £54.99. Everything is so cheap right now. You can add a motherboard about £70. Thats a total of £370 and it will absolutely destroy your pc. Yes its old technology now but you could get something newer if you wish for a bit more. You could spend £500 or £600 or £700 or £800. Instead of getting depressed because £1500 is too expensive, choose a lower figure that you're very very happy with.

The only people who should be spending £1500 on a PC are those who are happy about it. That's the same for any purchase. I'm very very happy with every purchase I ever make. It should never make you sad or regretful.

Two things about this.

1) I always build a whole new system while keeping the old system intact. ie: My components are mostly 9yrs old, so if I were to build a new PC I build a whole new PC and then once it's working, migrate everything (I have quite a bit software wise) over from the old PC to the new one. And then only when the new PC has totally replaced the old PC would I decommission the old one (after a while).
2) I tend to buy fairly high end components when building a new PC, reason being I'd prefer to upgrade less often, as you can see by my current situation with my 9yr old machine only just now becoming questionable performance wise.

(1) + (2) = Well into four figures... And let's not forget the main reason I'm not happy about spending that amount is because so far the only game complaining on my system is CoD:MW2, which is running at 75fps VSYNC'd (@ lowest detail). £1500-£2000 and all that time/effort just seems hard to justify for that issue at the moment.

NOTE: My Asus Z97-A motherboard has onboard graphics I believe, so I could theoretically use my existing 1070 in a new PC while migrating/moving over, but hmmm...


On a side note, it's sort of a shame there isn't a Steam Deck console unit, which is aimed at playing all Steam titles like a a PC, but in a console format.

 

[NeilF]

Although I don't recall doing it, I think my 4790K is also overclocked from 4gHz or 4.4gHz... CPUZ and HWInfo seem to say so.

 

[NeilF]

Of interest, playing Cod:MW2 DMZ Vondel is currently silky smooth on my system, or at least good enough for me. It seems to me Al Mazrah that cause the slightly less smooth game play I mentioned, even though it's still running at around 75fps.

Agree with this.

I remember when I upgraded my 4790K to, I think it was an 8 series. And I had a 1070 at the time or maybe a 1080. Anyway, the biggest difference was the lows in the system. It became smoother, less laggy. Then, when I upgraded to a 2070, the frame rate went up.

So, I think there is some benefit going to a 4070, but are still going to get some glitchy lows.

Also, you need to take care with the PC, in that you may need a BIOS update to even run a 4070. You better check that out and or buy from a company that will for sure accept returns.

I'm not aware of any BIOS update being need for a 4070? But yes, if I do order it will be from a place where I can return it in case it doesn't help where I need it.

 

[NeilF]

Not for the 4070 as such, but for anything beyond the 10 series. I seem to remember there was one for the 2070 with my motherboard. I do remember that when I first plugged the card in, I got a blank screen. Very worrying at the time, but luckily was easy to fix.

Z97-A｜Motherboards｜ASUS Canada

ASUS mining motherboard features 19 PCI Express® (PCIe®) slots. With 18 PCIe x1 and one PCIe x16 slots on board, plus three zoned ATX12V power connectors, B250 Mining Expert lets you run up to 19 NVIDIA or AMD GPUs* in parallel to max out your megahash rates!

www.asus.com

Mine if version 2801 which was the last one, back in 2015. The only one since then was a beta one in 2018.

Q: Would I expect all my BIOS settings to be reset/changed if I do a bios update? Or will they be kept/retained?

 

[NeilF]

Unless I'm not understanding this, here's two example of people running a 4070 on an Asus Z97-A (like mine) on a BIOS dated 2015/04/27 which is older than mine???

Please click the green human to continue - UserBenchmark

Please click the green human to continue - UserBenchmark

 

[NeilF]

Interesting...

Consider buying a generation old bundle from MM? I upgraded from a 4770K OC'd to 4.5GHz paired with a 2070S, to a 2nd hand 12600K/Mobo/RAM bundle I got from the MM for £320. It was a HUGE jump in performance!

I recently upgraded the GPU fto 7900XT, so my total spend was £1,020, and I've pretty much doubled (or more) the performance I did have.

I bought a PC from the MM many years ago, and it was a total dog... And I mean a bad bad dog!

 

[NeilF]

This is the first example I've found of the 4790K with a modern card playing Cod:MW2 - DMZ Al Mazrah @4m30s -

It actually comes across as less smooth than mine on my 1070 I'd say, but it gives a good idea of the 'judder' that this particular game/map gives. Vondel is much smoother on my system. But the fact that 4790 with a 3050 is also seemingly struggling seems like bad news for just a GPU upgrade (as some of you have said).

 

[NeilF]

How come? Unless you have a proprietary system all you need is CPU, motherboard, and RAM.

My basket at OcUK:

• 1 x Asus TUF Gaming B650-Plus WIFI (Socket AM5) DDR5 ATX Motherboard (SKU: MB-6K0-AS) = £149.99
• 1 x AMD Ryzen 7 7700 Eight Core 5.30GHz (Socket AM5) Processor - Retail (SKU: CP-3DV-AM) = £308.99
• 1 x Corsair Vengeance EXPO 32GB (2X16GB) DDR5 PC5-48000C36 6000MHz Dual Channel Kit (SKU: MEM-CRS-00996) = £119.98

Total: £578.96 (includes delivery: £0.00)​

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Are you suggesting that's just plug and play into my existing system? ie: Plug in the new MB, CPU and memory into all my existing stuff, HD and OS and all, and turn it on? No fresh install of windows etc? Sounds unlikely? Hence a whole new harddrive and OS install etc. Given the amount of stuff and configuration I have I'd ideally like to have any new machine running along side my old machine until I know the new machine has replaced everthing the old machine has.

 

[NeilF]

You'll need to pre-download drivers but otherwise, yes, you can just move a Windows installation, though a clean install of Windows is always best, and Windows will probably want relicensing. I have done it myself.



You are prudent. So add in a M.2 drive - not expensive.

Yeh... All understood, but I really would (for my peace of mind) need to run new and old at the sametime IMHO. ie: After a few hours if I realise I need to get an app, or config, or settings, or just something off the old machine which requires me to run it... Then?

And then won't I need a new CPU cooler/heatsink etc etc?

So it sort of means setting up a whole new machine, power supply, OS and case and all. But it means I'm left with a fully working old machine which I can then decommission/sell/give away after a few weeks as a working entity.

And a whole new machine isn't such a bad thing considering my PSU, fans etc etc etc are now nearly 10yrs old etc.

 

[NeilF]

I've read through this thread with interest and at first I thought buying the 4070 would give you a marked improvement in performance, albeit, it would be bottlenecked largely, but still, a marked improvement on your current card. However, after reading the thread fully, I now think it'd be a wasted upgrade, unless you upgrade the rest of your system too, i.e motherboard, ram, CPU.

If you are deadset on wanting to keep your current machine intact, then obviously you need to upgrade everything, not just the motherboard , CPU, RAM, and card. Without wanting to sound rude, you seem to be looking for a solution that isn't there, when basically you have two choices at this point, buy the 4070, be disappointed in its massively bottlenecked performance, or upgrade your full system from top to toe. If cost is an issue, like it is for most of us, then do like most of us do, which is make do and mend with your current system, whilst saving for a new one. Look at it this way, your current system is almost ten years old, it owes you nothing, I dare say you've had your monies worth out of it. To be honest, regardless of whether you were looking at a new graphics card or not, if you're a gamer, which you clearly are, then it's probably time to upgrade the lot anyway - the performance improvement could be massive for not a great deal of money, bearing in mind you were buying the 4070 anyway.

Yes, it appears some games/titles - eg: CoD:MW2 Al Mazrah DMZ - are bouncing off the peak performance of the CPU (4790K)... So yes, I fear upgrading the video card would achieve minimal improvements in these scenarios

 

[NeilF]

On a side note, with my main current and only concern being MW2:CoD Al Mazrah DMZ being a touch stuttery/clunky on my hardware. I'll swear the latest big update (for MW3?) has improved performance a bit?

As it stands with me increasing my performance about 15% by - 9yrs after building the system - finally enabling XMP memory on my motherboard (embarrassing ), and the apparent recent engine improvement, I'm happy to soldier on for the moment.

 

[NeilF]

bottlenecks are usually by the weakest link
either it be, ssd,gpu, cpu or ram

Many buy a new gpu and forget the cpu still needs to be able to keep up or they may not get any or small improvements due to that

Yeh, I suspect keeping my 4790K but upgrading my 1070 would allow me to up the visual quality in most of the games I play with a good smooth frame rate. But going forwards, MW2:CoD DMZ is showing that some titles are bottlenecking that CPU now... If I were to upgrade my GPU I suspect CoD would have some small improvements, especially visually, but where I'm beginning to feel that odd stutter/judder (eg: in Al Mazrah) I suspect that might persist. And in future titles this (CPU bottleneck) is only more likely to be the case...

 

[NeilF]

Right... A report back. Now running a new machine with a Ryzen 5 7600 and an NVidia 4070 Super. DMZ is now running at high details smoothly, BUT there still times, even though it's running at a constant 75fps with CPU and GPU hardly taxed, the feedback feels laggy. This seems to particularly be related to when other players/squads are near. So is this just network related lag?