Is an upgrade worthwhile?

Seearbe · 1 Aug 2019 at 13:31

Good day gentlefolk.

My PC is getting a few years old and I'm starting to get a little bothered by the slowdown when using Lightroom Classic, which is probably my main use for a PC at the moment. I also need to add a bit of main drive storage as I only have a few GB left, so wondering what the thoughts on general upgrade tictacs might be.

Current spec is below:

i7 3770K @ 3.5Ghz
Noctua NH-D14 Cooler
Gigabyte Z77X-D3H
16GB Corsair Vengeance LP @ 1600Mhz
2 x KFA2 670 OC 4GB (SLI)
2 x 256GB & 1 x 64GB Crucial M4 SSD
Corsair TX 850w
Antec P182
W7 Professional 64
27" Yamakasi Catleap 2560 x 1440
Asus Xonar DX

As much as I would love to be gaming more, two young kids means that's off the cards for a little while. It's all very casual gaming at the moment and nothing particularly GPU intensive, although I do have a few bits in the Steam library that could look pretty and shiny when pushed. There's very little in the FPS group that requires lightning framerates or low lag, so actually wonder whether someone like me would be better off going for some sort of subscription gaming thing, probably in a couple of years, rather than dropping a grand on a new GPU. This is sort of a question, so comments welcome!

Processor wise, I could do a bit of an overclock as I probably have everything I need to do that. I've not really bothered to date as I've never been sure of the real-world performance improvement. Of course the Ryzen 3000 series looks very attractive but I've also seen suggestion that whilst there would be something of a performance improvement, it's not going to be absolutely staggering.

So then I think about storage speed. My Lightroom library and cache is all on SSDs, with the photos themselves on a larger 7200rpm drive. My mobo doesn't have an M.2 socket but I see you can get adapter cards and I probably have a spare PCIe slot, most likely by removing the Xonar DX and just using the on-board audio. Is this sensible and likely to see some extra snappiness in the system? Could I install Windows onto this drive? A 1TB drive for a £150 or so would be sweet.

Also, when did cases stop having the ability to use BluRay drives? I still use my drive quite a lot, mostly for watching my BluRay discs, but it seems most case manufacturers have decided I should no longer have that ability!

orbitalwalsh · 1 Aug 2019 at 13:43

trying to work out against new ryzen .

6 core intel pulls ahead, due to cores and speed

https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/a...ormance-Core-i7-8700K-i5-8600K-i3-8350K-1056/

Older 1700X 3.8Ghz first gen ryzen was equal with current 4 core i7 CLOCK AT 4.5ghz . As you can see intels 6 core 6 threads matches intels 4 core 8 threads for performance - though this is older Lightroom verion

https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Lightroom-Classic-CC-2019-CPU-Roundup-Intel-vs-AMD-1298/

newer versions and intel 6 core and ryzen 2nd gen 8 core does improve!

If you were able to to afford Ryzen 3600 with manual overclock to push 4.2ghz all cores , you'd have a seriously good Lightroom rig

Seearbe · 1 Aug 2019 at 14:02

Thanks for that.

It's a shame there aren't any benchmarks out there on the Ryzen 3000, at least that I've found, because it seems there's a whole architecture change that could have a more pronounced effect.

I believe at the moment that Lightroom might only utilise 6 cores, at least Adobe's guidance on improving speed in June 2019 says "for best performance, up to six cores". With the great core rush of 2019, I wonder if they might improve multicore optimisation. I'd probably be more willing to bet on Ryzen core count for long-term value than single core speed at the moment. I guess my anecdotal comparison would be how you can rag a 4 cyclinder petrol car for speed and acceleration but the slower 6 cylinder diesel will still be going long after the 4 cyclinder has given up.

Anyway, random musings aside, the bits where I am seeing lightroom be a bit slow is building previews, HDR merging and exporting. All of these seem to be pretty good on the AMD TR with negligible difference between Intel, but intel makes up for it in general responsiveness.

I can afford Ryzen 3000, it's more a case of pondering whether it is worth it right now.

Any ideas how long the AM4 platform is going to be supported, as the upgrade path is massively attractive.

alec · 1 Aug 2019 at 14:30

From https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/a...U-Roundup-Intel-vs-AMD-1298/#BenchmarkResults seems it stilil benefits from 10 cores, and I suspect 12+ core cpus having lower clocks puts them behind.

I honestly think Ryzen 3700X or 3900X (if budget allows) are best choise for this kind of work.
M2 SSD, Intel 660p seems to be very good in price/speed/size. Guessing if all your sources are on SSD it will make the most difference.
GPU decide for yourself. Advise not to go for grand, 300-400 pound bracket have very respectable performance.

AM4 has been supported in unprecedented way, and will last until DDR5 comes out.

Seearbe · 1 Aug 2019 at 14:43

Cheers.

The 3900X is silly money at the moment but I guess it's carrying a premium and it's not like price-per-core is awful.

Think I'd stick with my 2 x 670s on GPU for the time being and hold out for the next generation of Nvidia cards - think it's worth waiting for AMD to properly up their game on that front so there's a bit more price competition in the market. I do also think it's worth seeing where game streaming goes in the next year or so.

So 3700X, 16GB RAM, Mobo, 2 x 1TB M2 plus a new case would probably be around £900. Increase that to £1,100 for the 3900X. I could do that. I'd possibly look to get a 32" 4K or a 1440p ultrawide monitor on top of that too. Otherwise I'd scavenge bits from the existing PC.

Seearbe · 1 Aug 2019 at 14:46

But one other thought - adapter card and M2 drive as a stop-gap? Upgrade wouldn't happen until Nov/Dec as I need to harvest some organs first.

alec · 1 Aug 2019 at 15:39

Out of curiousity, why new case? Anything wrong with p182?

No experience with M2 adapters. They are cheap and simple enough so should work.
I think on your board putting PCIE x4 in thrid big slot disables the small slots, so Xonar will have to go

Seearbe · 1 Aug 2019 at 15:57

alec said:
Out of curiousity, why new case? Anything wrong with p182?

No experience with M2 adapters. They are cheap and simple enough so should work.
I think on your board putting PCIE x4 in thrid big slot disables the small slots, so Xonar will have to go

Xonar isn't really that important. At the time of buying, I needed something with lower latency as a cheap "pro audio" solution but have since got a firewire device, and wanted a higher quality card as only had the PC for listening to music but now have a proper stereo, so no reason to not use the onboard.

The P182 is mostly fine but there's not a great deal of space in the gap between the back of the mobo tray and the side of the case, so it's positively bulging with the weight of cables in there. I've not poked down that side for a while but my PSU isn't modular and I think there are a few cables from there hidden, to keep them out of the way of a cooling fan. I'd also prefer something a little bit sleeker looking - a noise dampened, windowed case might be nice.

alec · 1 Aug 2019 at 17:02

Used to own a P180 mini (mATX version of P182 with a bigass fan on top). Loved it. Sides were think and sound dampening. Sold it with sandybridge system

If only I had an excuse you have, to actually need a more performant system for work.
But games I play don't need many cores, and the only game that does (BF V), I didn't like.

Seearbe · 1 Aug 2019 at 17:18

I've had this case for about 10 years now and it has served well, including surviving many house moves! The case itself is bomb proof.

As for excuses, the think holding me back is that I probably only switch my PC on once every couple of weeks at the moment. Once you have the money to do the things you want, life has a knack of getting in the way and stopping you actually doing it. So I would argue that "want" is enough of an excuse if you're going to actually make use of it and enjoy it.

Seearbe · 30 Oct 2019 at 13:18

Resurrecting my old thread, we're nearly in November now and having sold one of the children, I can now afford an upgrade to the computer. I've got a budget of £1,200 give or take. Would people be so kind at to make recommendations please?

Where I'm at right now:
CPU - 3700X
I'd use the stock cooler for now then get the free adapter bracket for the Noctua I currently have. This CPU seems to work well with Lightroom (https://www.pugetsystems.com/recomm...troom-Classic-CC-141/Hardware-Recommendations). I'm assuming it would be a decent upgrade to what I current have for all other purposes too.

Mobo - Asus Prime X570-Pro
At least that seems to be the best I can find based on needing/wanting: ability to SLI my 2 x 670's, at least 2 M.2 slots and ATX size. I don't need WiFi as the computer is wired into a 1Gb LAN port. I'd rather go x570 in order to future-proof as much as possible, e.g. future GPU upgrade potentially needing Pcie4. I also need a spare PCI slot for a firewire card I use with my Saffire 56 audio interfact, but that could be scrapped if Thunderbolt were possible?

RAM - 32GB 3200Mz CAS16 (probably Corsair Vengeance)
Yeah, 32GB is a lot but Lightroom and potentially doing video editing and music recording in the future might gobble some of this up.

SSD - 1920GB MP510 to use as main drive and for programmes.

I'll use the existing case, PSU, GPUs and drive. I would stripe the two M4s for games, and keep data and photos on the mechanical drives.

If anyone has any smarter ideas then please let me know. I have little confidence in my ability to understand the ever-evolving tech! And likewise if the answer is to just wait a couple of years, I can do that.