Is it me or are graphic cards prices totally off the charts

[Meladath]

no, the first set are wrong as well

http://i.imgur.com/T0fk8nc.png
149 / 84 = 1.77

Therefore 780Ti classified is 177% performance of a reference 680. I said 175% as I was rounding down. How exactly is that incorrect? Same goes for the others.

Look, I even googled it into a calculator in case you further doubt my basic maths skills.
http://i.imgur.com/mzjV6RM.png

I also overclock all my cards so again I am going off real world, not just stock / reference reviews

If you overclock these cards it just looks worse for your double scaling theory too, since this is 177% performance with a reference 680 and an overclocked 780Ti which is the very best case scenario I could find out of the ones you listed.

stock 680/770 to overclocked 980Ti is just over 200% performance, but that is two/two and a half/3 generations depending on how you look at it, AND a stock to overclocked comparison! https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ASUS/GTX_980_Ti_STRIX_Gaming/30.html
(note the 680/770 is lower than 50% relative to the 980Ti, therefore meaning relative to the 680/770 the 980Ti is over 200%)

 

[andybird123]

I don't still have the cards or neccessarily the same games to even re-run the tests
are you really going to quibble over 77% vs. "nearly double" which is what I actually said in response to someone saying the increase was only 30%

is 77% closer to 30% or "nearly double"

that person also said that "in the olden days we got double performance from flagship to flagship", I'm sure that if went back through reviews we could prove a case where it wasn't double back then either

like this;
https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Zotac/GeForce_9800_GTX/23.html

 

[Meladath]

I don't still have the cards or neccessarily the same games to even re-run the tests
are you really going to quibble over 77% vs. "nearly double" which is what I actually said in response to someone saying the increase was only 30%

So what you are actually saying is you used anecdotal evidence to prove a point and then when faced with the actual numbers you resort to "77% vs "nearly double""

77% in the very best case is not nearly double. It's 3/4 increase at best. (Ok, so maybe it wasnt the very best case, you can overclock a 980Ti further, but that is really grasping at straws to try to prove a point).

The average increase is more like 2/3 increase which is very far from even "nearly" double. It's in fact closer to a half increase than nearly double.

that person also said that "in the olden days we got double performance from flagship to flagship", I'm sure that if went back through reviews we could prove a case where it wasn't double back then either

like this;
https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Zotac/GeForce_9800_GTX/23.html

I do agree with this though for sure, nostalgia and rose tinted glasses again at work.
Although, are you comparing it to the 8800 or am I missing something? isnt it well known that was just a rebrand. I wasn't into PC's back then so I am missing a reference point to compare it to, excuse my ignorance.

 

[Jono8]

But a 980Ti is not nearly double the performance of a 780Ti.

It isnt even close.

in every game except for the Witcher 3, you are looking at more like ~50% faster, not 100% faster.

http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/nvidia_geforce_gtx_980_ti_review

 

[andybird123]

But a 980Ti is not nearly double the performance of a 780Ti.

It isnt even close.

in every game except for the Witcher 3, you are looking at more like ~50% faster, not 100% faster.

http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/nvidia_geforce_gtx_980_ti_review

their settings are a bit all over the show, the fact that witcher 3 IS double says to me that playing with settings could improve the apparent increase in other games as well, I do tend to be a "maximum settings" kind of person
a lot of reviews tend to use stock CPU's as well these days, and again I've always run as big an OC as I can

the point I was originally responding to as well was that "we used to get double"... using the same types of reviews as you guys are to debunk my double statement, it also completely debunks that older statement that we used to get double

the conversation is that GPU's are much worse value now than they used to be... I don't think they are, I think prices are in line with inflation and that performance increases are in line with what they were 10 years ago

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

their settings are a bit all over the show, the fact that witcher 3 IS double says to me that playing with settings could improve the apparent increase in other games as well, I do tend to be a "maximum settings" kind of person
a lot of reviews tend to use stock CPU's as well these days, and again I've always run as big an OC as I can

the point I was originally responding to as well was that "we used to get double"... using the same types of reviews as you guys are to debunk my double statement, it also completely debunks that older statement that we used to get double

the conversation is that GPU's are much worse value now than they used to be... I don't think they are, I think prices are in line with inflation and that performance increases are in line with what they were 10 years ago

Then try looking at the sub £200 mainsteam segment and we are not seeing close to double anymore.

Plus the UK has low inflation anyway.

Edit!!



The HD7770 is roughly around HD6850 or GTX460 performance:

https://tpucdn.com/reviews/Powercolor/HD_7770/images/perfrel_1920.gif

The GTX460 was released in the July 2010.

Its taken over 4.5 years to double performance at the mainstream level on average even after a node shrink.

 

[mxoagentjohnson]

To me, Ti editions of cards are what to wait for, pricey but last long. Especially now with the extra VRAM

However, cant fault the 970, cheap, amazing performance and does everything 95% of gamers would need ^-^

 

[andybird123]

Then try looking at the sub £200 mainsteam segment and we are not seeing close to double anymore.

Plus the UK has low inflation anyway.

we never did get double according to the last page and a half of discussion, and yes inflation has been low but over 10 years it still amounts to a 25% increase in pricing - £100 in 2006 is equivalent to £125 now

plus, 10 years ago the pound was worth around $1.80-1.90, now its worth ~$1.55

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

we never did get double according to the last page and a half of discussion, and yes inflation has been low but over 10 years it still amounts to a 25% increase in pricing - £100 in 2006 is equivalent to £125 now

plus, 10 years ago the pound was worth around $1.80-1.90, now its worth ~$1.55

Plus we also need to factor in average wage increases and that too,as you will need to look at relatively purchasing power and so on.

Yet we had cards in the past at well under £200 which still matched or exceeded flagship cards from the previous gen costing double that or even more.

Yet,does the R9 285/R9 380 and GTX960 match or exceed an R9 290X or GTX780TI or Geforce Titan Black on average?? Nope.

28NM needs to die a quick death.

 

[FinglisHobbit]

I keep deliberating over a new card. Although when I added a second 7970 to my system its given me a massive boost and it plays everything at 1440p with great framerates.

Looking at comparisons they perform like a 980.

I can no longer justify a new card other than the cooling and noise factor. The performance jumps will be barely noticeable.

£120-140 gets two 7950/70s and they still hold their own. £500 for an improvement is insane.

Annoyingly

 

[andybird123]

Plus we also need to factor in average wage increases and that too,as you will need to look at relatively purchasing power and so on.

Yet we had cards in the past at well under £200 which still matched or exceeded flagship cards from the previous gen costing double that or even more.

Yet,does the R9 285/R9 380 and GTX960 match or exceed an R9 290X or GTX780TI or Geforce Titan Black on average?? Nope.

28NM needs to die a quick death.

Yeah, 28nm has been a hard long slog... it is quite impressive what they have managed on one process

I think it is fair to say that "we" are spending more on PC gaming hardware in general, but I think that is more that people are chasing maximum settings ... "but can it run Crysis" was a running gag for a long time due to no single GPU being able to max that game out... where as now we are accustomed to top tier cards being able to max out most games even at higher resolutions... we also used to accept "avg. 60fps" and now it is "min 60fps"

 

[Boomstick777]

Pricing hasn't really changed tbh. We've had some new elite enthusiast products in GPU (Titan) but general performance wise your paying about the same for top performance today as we have been for the past 10 years. Just add inflation, nothing has really changed. 980 Ti is around £500 (2015), 8800GTX was around £475 (2006).

 

[TheRealDeal]

Then try looking at the sub £200 mainsteam segment and we are not seeing close to double anymore.

Plus the UK has low inflation anyway.

Edit!!



The HD7770 is roughly around HD6850 or GTX460 performance:

https://tpucdn.com/reviews/Powercolor/HD_7770/images/perfrel_1920.gif

The GTX460 was released in the July 2010.

Its taken over 4.5 years to double performance at the mainstream level on average even after a node shrink.

I got my 290 a year ago coming from a 6870 bought in Nov 2010. Both ended up costing me around £170. The 290 came with 4 games that i sold hence the low price. For me it was a massive upgrade and what should be expected every couple of years like back in the day. Things are crawling in the mid range atm but at the price i got mine i almost feel like i stole it looking at current pricing on the 390. The deal is even better when you consider it's an oc pcs that comes with stock 290x performance.

 

[FrankJH]

I keep deliberating over a new card. Although when I added a second 7970 to my system its given me a massive boost and it plays everything at 1440p with great framerates.

Looking at comparisons they perform like a 980.

I can no longer justify a new card other than the cooling and noise factor. The performance jumps will be barely noticeable.

£120-140 gets two 7950/70s and they still hold their own. £500 for an improvement is insane.

Annoyingly

Are 2*7970's much better than a 390 (If I'm recalling correctly 2 gens later)

IE instead of buying the 2nd 7970, you put the money you had with money from selling original 7970 and you could practically get a non-x 390

Admittedly my 390 was bought mainly because of a new Dell 34" widescreen, so I wanted the extra Vram anyway - but to me your choice would have been very close indeed.


In regards to the original question - personally I think its getting ridiculous the prices being charged for top cards. Top level CPU's are £300-400 (unless you want obscene amounts of cache etc) , and really I would hazard a guess that IF nVidia (who if my memory serves me, gouged on prices first) had kept the market reasonable and charged £400 say for top ti at the time, they would more of them to make up for the "loss" in the individual price tag.

No reason at all why a top level CPU, motherboard or gpu should be any different in cost approximately - to have gpu's already approaching double is just getting stupid imo

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

I keep deliberating over a new card. Although when I added a second 7970 to my system its given me a massive boost and it plays everything at 1440p with great framerates.

Looking at comparisons they perform like a 980.

I can no longer justify a new card other than the cooling and noise factor. The performance jumps will be barely noticeable.

£120-140 gets two 7950/70s and they still hold their own. £500 for an improvement is insane.

Annoyingly

This.

I got my 290 a year ago coming from a 6870 bought in Nov 2010. Both ended up costing me around £170. The 290 came with 4 games that i sold hence the low price. For me it was a massive upgrade and what should be expected every couple of years like back in the day. Things are crawling in the mid range atm but at the price i got mine i almost feel like i stole it looking at current pricing on the 390. The deal is even better when you consider it's an oc pcs that comes with stock 290x performance.

I saw the clearout deals on the R9 290 were amazing,but thats the thing - it was a short period clearout deals.

If you take the normal year round pricing,you are left with progressions like the GTX460 to GTX960 and HD6850 to R9 285/R9 380,which takes years.

Edit!!

It basically means people tend to be pushed to the higher tier of pricing if they want that progression most of the time.

Put the higher pricing of Skylake into consideration and you see where things are heading,irrespective of whether you buy Intel,AMD or Nvidia.

If Zen is reasonable,I don't expect it to be cheap either.

 

[FrankJH]

I got my 290 a year ago coming from a 6870 bought in Nov 2010. Both ended up costing me around £170. The 290 came with 4 games that i sold hence the low price. For me it was a massive upgrade and what should be expected every couple of years like back in the day. Things are crawling in the mid range atm but at the price i got mine i almost feel like i stole it looking at current pricing on the 390. The deal is even better when you consider it's an oc pcs that comes with stock 290x performance.

Please remember that you are talking about buying a 290 after it was released a full year (released Oct 2013 from a quick google) compared to a 390 that's been out a couple of months.

Probably in about 10 months you will be able to get a 390 with 4 games which will allow for a lot of the difference in the price tags.

Not really a fair comparison

 

[TheRealDeal]

This.



I saw the clearout deals on the R9 290 were amazing,but thats the thing - it was a short period clearout deals.

If you take the normal year round pricing,you are left with progressions like the GTX460 to GTX960 and HD6850 to R9 285/R9 380,which takes years.

Edit!!

It basically means people tend to be pushed to the higher tier of pricing if they want that progression most of the time.

Put the higher pricing of Skylake into consideration and you see where things are heading,irrespective of whether you buy Intel,AMD or Nvidia.

If Zen is reasonable,I don't expect it to be cheap either.

Yea we can only hope that Zen is good and Amd's next Gpu's are good to start some kind of price war. The thing is even if this happens the prices will only drop to where they should have been in the first place so no real bargain. I was going to jump on Skylake for my upgrade but my current setup is still performing pretty well so will wait and see how Zen performs. I don't game as much as i used to so my drive to spend on over priced hardware is not high.

 

[TheRealDeal]

Please remember that you are talking about buying a 290 after it was released a full year (released Oct 2013 from a quick google) compared to a 390 that's been out a couple of months.

Probably in about 10 months you will be able to get a 390 with 4 games which will allow for a lot of the difference in the price tags.

Not really a fair comparison

It is a fair comparison, apart from the extra 4gb of ram and a higher memory clock they are pretty much the same cards. My card at 1200p will perform almost identically to a 390 and i don't need the extra 4gb of ram at this resolution. My card comes with stock clocks of 1040/1350

This is pretty much my card and it does not come with 4 games and is clocked lower on the core.

https://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=GX-178-PC&groupid=701&catid=56&subcat=3059

My memory will happily sit at 1500mhz as well.

 

[andybird123]

Are 2*7970's much better than a 390 (If I'm recalling correctly 2 gens later)

IE instead of buying the 2nd 7970, you put the money you had with money from selling original 7970 and you could practically get a non-x 390

Admittedly my 390 was bought mainly because of a new Dell 34" widescreen, so I wanted the extra Vram anyway - but to me your choice would have been very close indeed.


In regards to the original question - personally I think its getting ridiculous the prices being charged for top cards. Top level CPU's are £300-400 (unless you want obscene amounts of cache etc) , and really I would hazard a guess that IF nVidia (who if my memory serves me, gouged on prices first) had kept the market reasonable and charged £400 say for top ti at the time, they would more of them to make up for the "loss" in the individual price tag.

No reason at all why a top level CPU, motherboard or gpu should be any different in cost approximately - to have gpu's already approaching double is just getting stupid imo

The thing to bear in mind with AMD's current lineup is that the 390/X are basically just a rebrand with 8GB of the 290/X with a small OC, so you really only have one generation from the 7970 to the 390

The GTX 580 was around £300, when AMD released the 7970 at £450, just sayin... The 6970 was £300 at launch

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

The thing to bear in mind with AMD's current lineup is that the 390/X are basically just a rebrand with 8GB of the 290/X with a small OC, so you really only have one generation from the 7970 to the 390

The GTX 580 was around £300, when AMD released the 7970 at £450, just sayin

The GTX580 3GB cards and the ones with multi-display capabilities were around £400 to £500 or around the HD7970 3GB level. Examples include the Galaxy MDT 1.5GB.

The lowest end GTX580 1.5GB cards were roughly around the same price as the HD7950 3GB ones at launch at around £350ish.

Before the GTX680 launch,a few GTX580 deals sprung up and the cheapest I ever saw one go for was just under £300 on offer,a few weeks before the GTX680 was available to buy.

Edit!!

Just look at the Hexus Bang4buck ratings:

http://hexus.net/tech/reviews/graphics/33031-amd-radeon-hd-7970-3gb/?page=17

Bit-tech:

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/graphics/2011/12/22/amd-radeon-hd-7970-3gb-review/10

Hexus puts the GTX580 1.5GB at around £350ish and Bit-tech at around £350ish to £380ish.