Is it time for Bernie to leave?

King Damager · 16 Feb 2013 at 18:00

Whitmarsh has been fairly condemning with regards to finance:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/21463651

I also believe it's something that we've discussed (finances) in detail, and I vaguely recall either reading, or someone saying that TV rights wise, F1 only brings in revenue close to the Turkish Football league.

If so, it seems that someone isn't doing their job right, and the teams aren't really getting the money from F1 and TV rights that perhaps they should.

The greatest thing I see about this would be that we could get rid of some of the 'pay' drivers. I know there has always been a tradition of pay drivers (as was mentioned in the article recently regarding pay), however, in recent years with the smaller teams, it seems they exist purely to put pay drivers at the back of the field to be lapped.... Very few of those at the back, or even midfield are drivers their purely on talent. Kobayashi is perhaps the notable example of that, plus a few others who I feel would arguably be better in other teams that aren't this year...

So, I pose the question to you, is it time for Bernie to give it up and someone else to take over to bring in more revenue for F1 as a sport in general?

kd

JRS · 16 Feb 2013 at 18:22

The whole ******* mess could be sorted out quite quickly if the rules actually encouraged manufacturers and sponsors to get involved. But they don't. And the blame for that rests squarely at the door of the FIA. Not Bernie, or FOM, or the teams. It's all down to Formula One no longer being a case of 'hey, how can we make something really bloody quick?' and more it being 'hey, how can we invent a re-e-e-e-eally tricky diffuser to get around this rulebook that's about the same length as the Encyclopaedia Britannica and just as easy to get into?'....

~Mike~ · 16 Feb 2013 at 18:33

Regardless of the financial side of F1, it's about time that Bernie handed over to someone else.

MarcLister · 16 Feb 2013 at 19:28

Mike306 said:
Regardless of the financial side of F1, it's about time that Bernie handed over to someone else.

Agreed. It's been time for Bernie to leave for several years.

I think budgets have come down and considering that F1 is a multi-national sport with GPs all over the world, it does seem a bit silly that teams aren't getting their fair share of the income that F1 generates.

arknor · 16 Feb 2013 at 19:31

MarcLister said:
Agreed. It's been time for Bernie to leave for several years.

I think budgets have come down and considering that F1 is a multi-national sport with GPs all over the world, it does seem a bit silly that teams aren't getting their fair share of the income that F1 generates.

It's the teams fault they get ripped off.

like when the teams were all for the fans and free to air until bernie offered them 5 mil each or whatever measly sum it was and they all changed their tunes

MarcLister · 16 Feb 2013 at 19:33

arknor said:
It's the teams fault they get ripped off.

like when the teams were all for the fans and free to air until bernie offered them 5 mil each or whatever measly sum it was and they all changed their tunes

I'm sure the teams aren't entirely blameless for the fact they get less money than they think they should. However I reckon some bloke called Bernie is expert at leading them astray so they think they are getting a good deal. Until later on when they realise they aren't.

Slam62 · 16 Feb 2013 at 19:34

Pay tv may well be significantly reduce the net income for f1 teems, however I don't think it will die it will just return to free to air and have to rebuild its following, the problem is that the f1 powers that be think they can rake in cash like the premier league, but that won't happen.

MissChief · 16 Feb 2013 at 19:35

It's the fact that the teams don't present a united front and Ferrari have far too much power over what happens. They can lean on Torro Rosso as well as having Bernie's ear. That and they get paid by FOM to only do F1 and no other international team with a works squad. What's needed is a wholesale change but Ferrari don't want a change (other than in season testing) as they're financially way better off now than they will be in any new scheme or championship. If the teams all went to Bernie as a united front and told him it was time to go he wouldn't have any choice but Ferrari especially are **** scared anyone new will look to screw them out of what they're getting.

IMO lower teams should actually get MORE money and there should be some sort of testing for new drivers and new teams.

I'd suggest limited mileage testing with non race drivers for any team scoring a dry podium in the past twelve months, limited testing with race drivers (or unlimited with non race drivers) for points scoring teams and unlimited testing for non points scorers with any driver they want, but all on a circuit that isn't part of the calendar.

King Damager · 16 Feb 2013 at 19:44

Slam62 said:
Pay tv may well be significantly reduce the net income for f1 teems, however I don't think it will die it will just return to free to air and have to rebuild its following, the problem is that the f1 powers that be think they can rake in cash like the premier league, but that won't happen.

See, I feel the way the NFL Gamepass works would be a great way for F1 to bring in some money.

£100 or so to watch every game of the season, with multiple viewing offers, loads of quality options, and commentating on all. Can also watch a cut down version if I so choose.

Seems like a similar option for F1 would be good. Now it's not quite as big as the NFL (arguably due to the massive US NFL viewership - even though it's more of an international sport than NFL), but I'd happily pay in the region of £50-100 to watch all the F1 races with no adverts, solid commentary, access to team cameras or something (nothing that gave away technical data, but similar to the NFL 'coaches film' option), and the many other options that come with the NFL game pass. I also suspect I'd not be the only person willing to do this. It would also potentially bring in a lot more international viewership as all you need is an internet connection, rather than the channel to watch it. You could still sell it to the broadcasting companies because it would still draw people in, but yeah, seems like that would be a solid option to make some more money.

kd

dannyjo22 · 16 Feb 2013 at 22:32

JRS said:
The whole ******* mess could be sorted out quite quickly if the rules actually encouraged manufacturers and sponsors to get involved. But they don't. And the blame for that rests squarely at the door of the FIA. Not Bernie, or FOM, or the teams. It's all down to Formula One no longer being a case of 'hey, how can we make something really bloody quick?' and more it being 'hey, how can we invent a re-e-e-e-eally tricky diffuser to get around this rulebook that's about the same length as the Encyclopaedia Britannica and just as easy to get into?'....

Yep and why in 1997 you could win the title with less than 40m. The amount of add on tat is unbelieveable and no doubt unbelievably expensive.

It's not just down to Bernie, I don't like the way he screws circuits but if the rules where simplier more straight forward and they didn't let teams get away with getting away with breaking the intent of rules they would spend so much money on areas that most of the public don't give a toss about.

We are now left with 300m+ budgets and some of the most ugly cars I have ever seen.

King Damager · 16 Feb 2013 at 23:11

Don't look at this years rear wing on the Ferrari

kd

Westyfield2 · 17 Feb 2013 at 00:04

It was time for Bernie to leave the day he arrived.

MissChief · 17 Feb 2013 at 01:42

Westyfield2 said:
It was time for Bernie to leave the day he arrived.

In fairness to bernie the sport was a shambles when he took over. Warring team owners, regulations that were either blatantly biased towards one particular technology or team, stupid decisions by stewards and JM Balestre (Anyone who's watched Senna will know this guy was a prize douche) and bernie fixed a lot of that, but also in fairness he's made himself very rich, has alienated the 'normal' fan, circuit owners, TV Companies and lots of other people and made the sport very exclusive, almost to the point where if you want any decent access to the 'good' areas, the pit lane or even to meet the drivers it costs a fortune. That's the difficult bit, getting someone who can continue the good bits Bernie has done but doesn't want to make himself obscenely rich on the back of it.

If you ever watched the documentary about Sid Watkins (at least i think it was) he mentions the time at the German GP when the circuit owner was trying to get Sid ejected from some official area because he was sitting in 'his' seat or something. bernie basically told him 'either he stays of the GP's off', just like that.

The_Abyss · 17 Feb 2013 at 19:19

I love the look of the 2013 cars (most of them) compared to the past.

On a side note unrelated to whether Bernie should go or not, comparing football TV income with F1 TV income is ridiculous. Football dwarfs just about everything, and there are countless more games shown live each year. There are also more competitions, not just domestic but international cups, as well as proper internationals. Plus, football is a game that 99% of the population play and therefore is also supported by major sports brands like Nike and Adidas. Football is populist and, much as I love it, F1 is not and neither is motorsport in general.

FrankJH · 18 Feb 2013 at 10:03

Bernie is just an employee now - CWC? I think own the rights to F1 now.

Im not saying they dont listen to him and perhaps even allow him to do what he wants, but it isnt as straight forward as getting rid of BE either (I dont like the guy at all )

Mr Men · 18 Feb 2013 at 11:25

Bernie only does what the teams what, the teams want races in places like China, Abu Dhabi etc. Bernie is just an easy target to blame everything on. If it was not for Bernie then I doubt F1 would be a worldwide sport it is now.

Skeeter · 18 Feb 2013 at 11:37

FrankJH said:
Bernie is just an employee now - CWC? I think own the rights to F1 now.

He's still CEO of FOA (parent of FOM), so while he doesn't personally own a controlling share, he is still top of the tree.

If you focus on individual things then people are fully justified in saying hes a crazy old fool. But if you look at the big picture, in terms of the global success of Formula 1 now compared to what it was like before he took charge, you cannot deny that he has grown the sport into a premier global series.

FrankJH · 18 Feb 2013 at 17:17

Skeeter said:
He's still CEO of FOA (parent of FOM), so while he doesn't personally own a controlling share, he is still top of the tree.

If you focus on individual things then people are fully justified in saying hes a crazy old fool. But if you look at the big picture, in terms of the global success of Formula 1 now compared to what it was like before he took charge, you cannot deny that he has grown the sport into a premier global series.

Ok - I was under the impression that FOM /FOA was contracted by CWC

(I realise this is really a technicality as Bernie still has a lot/majority of the power irrespective of what he /CWC actually own)

Skeeter · 18 Feb 2013 at 17:30

The use of the FOx names gets a bit confusing, but basically CVC own around 70% of 'Formula 1 the business', and Bernie and his family own the rest, and then Bernie is employed to head up the organisation. So whilst technically an employee, he is at the top calling the shots. CVC just rake in the money he makes them and don't have anything to do with the running of the organisation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formula_One_Group

FrankJH · 18 Feb 2013 at 19:44

Thanks for that - I looked at the general F1 page on wiki (while at work) but couldnt see anything relevant.

CVC were meant to be selling 20% of their stake in an IPO last year, but Im not sure it ever happened