Is it unethical for online stores to take advance payment for orders with no long term availability?

mmj_uk said:
For me it comes down to personal responsibility which most people today seem to be adverse to, if you don't want your money being tied up in a pre-order then don't order it.
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Pretty much. I work for an online retailer and we have very seasonal products. some people will happily pay now for something to be delivered 12-24 months later. Granted we're talking lower value than GPU's but some customers genuinlely seem to want this option.

Managing the pre-order levels is a bit annoying and we've made the decision to restrict this in some cases but you'll still get customers emailing/phoning CS complaining about not being able to pro-order something for 2022.

I would never pre-order personally but it's a bit of a damned if you do damned if you dont scenario.
 
I agree. It's unethical for any company to take payment for a product they do not have in stock. A company shouldn't take payment for anything unless it's in stock and ready to dispatch.
 
Thekwango said:
not sure how it gives customers most choice. this isn't limited to the gpu market but we'll roll with that as it's quite an extreme example currently........you pre-order......but then after pre ordering you discover that you won't get the gpu until some unknown time in the distant future. you debate, ponder and wonder what to do. meanwhile another model comes up and in stock or the item you want becomes available elsewhere but your cash is tied up with a pre-order. where's the customers choice there? scalping etc is always going to happen for high interest items but putting them on a pre-order isn't the way, imo, to deal with that.

sure pre-orders are fine when you know you are getting your item on 'x' date and possibly with a cost saving incentive but pre-order for the sake of pre-order, especially when the retailer won't be able to deliver on the promise made at the time of pre-order. nah, that scummy at best and should be made illegal.

and for clarity before all the brown nosers jump in, i never was waiting for a new gpu so i'm neither salty nor bitter about the gpu situation i just generally despise the pre-order game retailers like to make their customers play. i'm quite happy with my custom cooled vega64 and will only upgrade when there is stock and at a sensible price.
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Personally, I'd chose not to pre-order and I've been lucky to get the cards I wanted when they came up (6800XT for me and 3080FE for the other half). But I can understand the appeal of putting some money down and just waiting and not having to sit by a pc all day waiting for that discord ping and then frantically attempting to make a purchase. Either way, you know it's probably going to be months and months to wait.

It probably comes down to affordibility for the end user.

But I still feel that it's not unethical of retailers as long as they've been up front about the wait times.
 
It's choice, nobody is forcing anyone to do anything. You are free to spend your money how you see fit. And it's not the only option available to people.

Nobody is taking money, it's given.

The option of a refund is there is you change your mind or circumstances change, you use any form of payment method today and you have protection.

People need to get a grip.
 
Efour said:
I'm with you its a complete rip off.
But....
People seem more than happy to give away their money for 6 months+ and let the retailer make a fortune by investing it away.
And...
If people are happy to do this with no subterfuge from the retailer then..... What can you do?
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Agreed.

Although I'd be inclined to make it illegal to "sell" products you don't have for sale and can't get for sale. Leave that sort of thing to gambling on the stock market.
 
Efour said:
I'm with you its a complete rip off.
But....
People seem more than happy to give away their money for 6 months+ and let the retailer make a fortune by investing it away.
And...
If people are happy to do this with no subterfuge from the retailer then..... What can you do?
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making a fortune :p. I don't think they're buying bitcoin, in all likelihood they are getting nominal interest at best.
 
SpeedFreak said:
making a fortune :p. I don't think they're buying bitcoin, in all likelihood they are getting nominal interest at best.
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Or even more likely, they're using it to buy more inventory to sell - because retailer :p. Ideally something with a short inventory cycle in case everyone asks for their dollar back at once.
 
They will have cash in the bank and would recognise an outstanding creditor, which is obviously positive cashflow. It is a free loan and reduces their marginal cost of debt, but at present debt is very cheap. I can't believe generating a nominal interest savings is their motivating factor.

Edit - outstanding creditor
 
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The Running Man said:
Will they be able to book the funds until its shipped/invoiced though?
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It'll sit on the balance sheet as a liability. They aren't able to declare any income from the sale until the goods are shipped.

SpeedFreak said:
They will have cash in the bank and would recognise an outstanding debtor, which is obviously positive cashflow. It is a free loan and reduces their marginal cost of debt, but at present debt is very cheap. I can't believe generating a nominal interest savings is their motivating factor.
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Free cash is free cash! :p
 
dLockers said:
It'll sit on the balance sheet as a liability. They aren't able to declare any income from the sale until the goods are shipped.


Free cash is free cash! :p
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I agree, but it's more the motivations that can be questioned. I doubt they are using it to generate interest savings, but could potentially be experiencing a cash flow issue for example. It is a drug, once you turn on the tap it's hard to come off it.
 
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it does seem very common practice.

ordered some stuff from a hobby supply company a while back and it threw me a bit when they charged me twice, until i remembered they were one of the few retailers that charge on shipping not on receiving the order and part of it was a backorder.

tbh i'm inclined to lean on the free choice camp, however only when applied to products the store has full intention of stocking. you can choose to pay and wait, or wait and pay, the shop isn't exactly forcing your hand one way or the other.
 
adolf hamster said:
it does seem very common practice.

ordered some stuff from a hobby supply company a while back and it threw me a bit when they charged me twice, until i remembered they were one of the few retailers that charge on shipping not on receiving the order and part of it was a backorder.

tbh i'm inclined to lean on the free choice camp, however only when applied to products the store has full intention of stocking. you can choose to pay and wait, or wait and pay, the shop isn't exactly forcing your hand one way or the other.
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Maybe as long as it's advertised honestly - "Pay us in full now and you'll get what you paid for at some point in the next 6 months. Probably."

If PC hardware doesn't start being available again and prices don't drop to something less ridiculous (e.g. £550 for a budget graphics card - no, just plain no, I am not willing to pay that much for that) my next gaming machine will probably be a console. I'd rather not, but it might be the less bad course of action. It's the controller that's the issue for me, but maybe I could find something that I could use. If the situation with PC hardware doesn't change significantly, I'll have to start looking. Fortunately my current PC is still fine for current games at 2560x1440 and I generally play older games anyway and I'm well past the stage of upgrading for the sake of upgrading and the last year has definitely brought home the value of keeping spare money. Maybe I'll need it for something more important. Definitely more important than having it in a company's accounts for a product they haven't actually sold to me and which I might get in time for Christmas.
 
Honestly i do wonder why folk get so worked up about a delayed gpu release, its not like old hardware isnt perfectly viable for an enjoyable time with the settings dialled back a tad.

I cant recall the last time i had a game be "unplayable" that was due to hardware incapability, its almost always the game not utilising whats there, bugs, or mods.
 
This thread was a little confusing. Initially I thought it was a general question/discussion about websites that take money upfront for pre orders.

Turned out to be a veiled attack on OcUK's GFX card shambles.
 
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