Is it worth upgrading?

You're all making me want to get an i5 over an i3, dammit :p it's quite a bit more pricey though... is it really worth it? It'd be nice to have a quad core and all, but I'm wondering if it's worth the extra money.

GPU-wise, the GeForce 460 seems to be closer in price to the 6870 than the 6850. I wonder if it'd be worth getting a 6870..

Also, checking on various websites I think I can get W7 Home Premium for £65 or so, but it's an OEM version, would that cause any troubles?

It seems (shopping around) that I could get an i5, a 6850, 8GB of RAM, a cheaper mobo and Win 7 for about £380. Gah, why does Windows have to be so expensive :p
 
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The i5 is definitely worth the extra money. The question is whether you can afford to spend the extra now.

Which i5, and which mobo? If it's a K series i5 and it's a P or Z series mobo, then you're alright, but anything else is a false economy.

OEM windows means that if for some reason you decided to change out your processor or motherboard your copy of windows would deactivate and you wouldn't be allowed to reinstall it because the license was just for the original machine. In practice, however, the system does allow for faulty parts and you can often reactivate over the phone if, for example your CPU, mobo, and GFX card all went faulty and you decided to replace them with better parts. Just be aware of the limits.
 
Awesomeish said:
Also, checking on various websites I think I can get W7 Home Premium for £65 or so, but it's an OEM version, would that cause any troubles?
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Be wary of any decent prices for Windows 7 unless you totally trust the site. A couple of years ago I bought a non OEM copy of Windows 7 Professional from the famous rainforest site and it turned out to be a developer version with a limited license, so basically an illegal version. I got my money back though.

You're likely better paying a bit more from Overclockers to guarantee it's legit.


.
 
Another question (sorry)

Would my PSU be capable of powering something like a 6870 and an i5? I was mistaken earlier - it's a StealthXStream 500w, not 550w (I'm not sure if that even exists :p). I'm wondering if it has the right connectors, seeing as it's a bit old now.
 
I'll add my 2c as I've just done a cheap upgrade to LGA1155, and i5 cost nowhere near £350!

Firstly if you currently have dual core and it does everything you need it to(albeit a touch slowly) then you don't need to leap straight to an overclockable quad. Yes, the 2500k is by far the best 'real world' chip in the Intel lineup, but unless you're using quad-optimised programmes all the time it's overkill. I'm assuming you don't plan to upgrade your monitor? If so then a 6950 is also overkjill.

Get an i3 2100, 4gb of cheap ram, then from the clearance section buy a 6850 and a H61 mobo. That will be a good base for a modern system. If you have more money to spend then either upgrade the the mobo to something which will support overclocking so you can upgrade the cpu at some point in the near futurem or else buy a slightly better mobo with sata3 support and add qn SSD. The SSD will have a pronounced effect on how fast your system 'feels'
 
Thanks for an alternative opinion Charlaph, I'll look into that. I was still deciding whether I should get an i5 or an i3; the difference in gaming framerate won't be that big will it? And if I went with an i5, the consensus seems to be that I'd have to get an overclockable version, as well as a mobo which supports that, which will be much more expensive than I originally thought.

As for the PSU, I checked and have a 6+2 pin connector (even though the website states it's just a 6-pin... odd), but the CPU connector is only 4-pin... would that be a problem?
 
Only one 6+2 pin? I'm not 100% but I think the 6850 might need 2 pci-e power. The CPU connector on the mobo is usually an 8 pin(2x4pin), but it'd be worth checking compatibility.

If your psu isn't up to the job and needs upgrading, then it makes sense to stick with i3 to keep your costs down. It's still a decent chip, and 90% of games will be unaffected by the difference in performance. If you get a decent board (which I really recommend) then you can upgrade to i5 in a few years and overclock the nuts off it without having to buy anything else.
 
Couple of things - there's really no point getting an i5 and not spending the extra to get the 2500k. If you decide you want a quad then the 500k is a no brainer, but you will need a better (and pricier) mobo to overclock it. As Devrij says, it's arguably worth it to get a better mobo now just to have the option of upgrading the CPU, rather than cheaping out and then being faced with a new CPU+mobo upgrade in the future. Only you know if this sounds sensible considering your budget.

For gaming at lower resolutions there will be litter difference between the i3 and i5 unless you're playing a lot of quad-optimised games (BF3 and GTAIV spring to mind - there are probably others in the strategy realm) so you can save a fair bit of money with the i3, and it removes the temptation of a hugely expensive graphics card since the CPU will be a bottleneck. As such, I think the 6850 is a nice compromise. You'll be able to play most modern games with high settings at decent framerates. The only real negative is that it'll age quicker, so in one or two generations of games you might need to upgrade again, whereas a 7850 will likely see you through longer.

It's swings and roundabouts really. Spend a couple hundred more now and have an overspecced machine but which will see you through the next few years, or buy cheaper and have something which is perfectly capable right now, but will need an overhaul sooner.


As for your PSU, you'll need to decide on a graphics card first then pay careful attention to it's power draw, and compare your PSU to see if it's up to the job. Physical connectors aren't an issue as your graphics card will likely come with a molex adaptor (and if it doesn't you can buy them cheap enough) - the question is whether your PSU has enough amps on it's 12v rails to support the graphics card via the adaptor. The 6850 is a pretty power efficient design though, so unless your power supply is garbage I'd imagine you'll be fine.
 
Stoner81 said:
New machine is the better option here imho, is your HDD SATA and is your optical drive a CD or DVD drive and is that SATA? If so then at least those can be used in the new build, the PSU you have currently should be enough for your needs at the moment.

Here is a quick spec which includes a new case but no OS:

YOUR BASKET
1 x EVGA GeForce GTX 460 Superclocked FTW 1024MB GDDR5 PCI-Express Graphics Card (01G-P3-1363-KR) £124.99
1 x Intel Core i3-2120 3.30GHz (Sandybridge) Socket LGA1155 Processor - Retail £91.99
1 x Cooler Master Elite 430 Windowed Case - Black £39.98
1 x GeIL Dragon 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3 PC3-12800C11 1600MHz Dual Channel Kit (GD38GB1600C11DC) £37.99
1 x MSI H61M-P31-G3 Intel H61 (Socket 1155) DDR3 Motherboard £35.99
Total : £345.05 (includes shipping : £11.75).



Stoner81.
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As Stoner suggests a new build would be much better. You could do what i've done and am currently doing. Get a decent graphics card for now enjoy the boost , but ultimately save for a rebuild, and you can transfer the "decent" graphics card and harddrives into the new build. I got a core2duo at 3.4ghz with 4GB of RAM and i struggle now to play some games. Get that GTX460 or something similar and save up a few hundred for the rest of the spec (quadcore, 8GB DDR3, etc). If you overclocked the CPU a bit more you should be ok for a while the real worry is only 2GB of RAM, ebay maybe. Just an idea an idea :)
 
Poor guy, came on with a budget and now he's facing a £500 overhaul!

If I was going to summarise your best options Awesomeish, they would go like this:

1) go balls out and buy the lot. 2500K, decent board, 8GB RAM, 6850, W7 (PSU pending confirmation). You get it all now, but your wallet hurts. It will last a long time with periodic gfx card upgrades as needed.

2) keep in budget, but play smart. i3, decent board that allows a 2500k to slot in later, 6850, W7. PSU if needed. 4GB RAM, upgradeable to 8GB later. Gets you a great performance boost, and allows for longevity with a good upgrade path. You do lose value in the upgrades in the long run though.

3. Upgrade your gfx card and start saving for the big upgrade. Overclock your CPU to the hilt (why worry, you'll be upgrading soon!), and enjoy the extra gpu power until you can afford the full system you want. Why compromise when you can have what you want with some patience?

4. Buy an xbox and leave this place in shame!
 
You can pick up P67 'B3' motherboards extremely cheap now, a P67 mobo paired with a Intel Xeon E3-1230 v2 would be nice and cheap, it's basically a 3770K without overclocking and no onboard igpu (Doesn't get as hot no GPU). It has all the benefits of 22nm, ipc performance and 8MB cache. It's also cheap as 2500K etc..

16GB of memory is dirt cheap now and a HD 6850 can be had for around £85. Add a cheap 650watt PSU and you will be good to go...
 
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Thanks for all the suggestions guys, I think I've decided roughly what I want to do.

If I got an i5/better GPU/etc. it'd be a lot more expensive than I originally intended, and I wouldn't be able to re-use a lot of my current parts (I'd need to buy a new PSU for higher-end graphics cards, and I might need a new case if it wouldn't fit etc.). And like someone earlier said, going straight from a Core2duo to an overclockable i5 is a bit overkill, and so on.

I've found that the 6850 only needs one 6-pin connector, so I can keep my PSU. That'd pair nicely with an i3 2120, I think. If I got a basic H61 mobo and 8 GB of DDR3. That comes to about £265, then I just need to get Win7 and I should be okay.

Does that sound good? :p
 
It does sound good, but I would really urge you to push for a P67 or Z68 board instead. You'd be able to overclock (beneficial since you're going dual core and might want the extra grunt later), and when you drop in an i5 later on you'll really be able to stretch its legs. H61 is a really stunted platform to work from, and it's the centre of your entire build. Only 2 DIMM slots, no overclocking, only 4 sata ports. I just think you would find it limiting in a year or two, if not sooner.

This board will have to last you through 2 cpus, which means at least 5 years.

Something like this might suit you, and keep your budget down to reasonable levels.

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MB-052-AK
 
You make good points... how about a Gigabyte GA-Z68AP-D3?

Z68 chipset, compatible with Ivy Bridge and supports crossfire (so I could perhaps buy a second 6850 later on), and it's only £70 or so. This leads me to another question though:

is there much difference between 1333, 1600, and 1800 mhz RAM? The other board I had in mind only supported 1333 mhz, but this one supports more.
 
That is a great board. If I'm honest, ram speeds don't make a huge difference outside of benchmarks. 1600mhz is a decent price point per performance.
 
Then it's settled, I think!

-Gigabyte GA-Z68AP-D3
-8GB Corsair DDR3 Vengeance (1600 Mhz)
-1GB MSI HD 6850 OC
-Intel Core i3 2120 3.3 Ghz

I can get that for about £300, and then Windows 7 will bring me up to £400, but I guess it's worth it (I'm unsure about buying the OEM version 'cause apparently it's technically illegal to use for myself, pah).

Time to check some building guides on YT. I'll order the parts soon, thanks, all :)
 
Awesomeish said:
Then it's settled, I think!

-Gigabyte GA-Z68AP-D3
-8GB Corsair DDR3 Vengeance (1600 Mhz)
-1GB MSI HD 6850 OC
-Intel Core i3 2120 3.3 Ghz

I can get that for about £300, and then Windows 7 will bring me up to £400, but I guess it's worth it (I'm unsure about buying the OEM version 'cause apparently it's technically illegal to use for myself, pah).

Time to check some building guides on YT. I'll order the parts soon, thanks, all :)
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Looks good man. There's a great build guide stickied in here I think (that's what I used the first time I made a build). You could use OEM, but a retail license is worth having. I'll admit I've reactivated my OEM copy through several upgrades, but I always worry when I upgrade that this was the last time and I may end up short an OS! Retail lasts for life so it's not bad value when you think of it like that.

Don't forget to post pics of your build in the build logs forum so we can see it!
 
Sorry for the bump, but I have a few more questions I hope someone doesn't mind answering here :D

The rebuilding went okay - the only real troubles were the fiddly parts (like trying to plug/unplug certain connectors), and installing the CPU was scary 'cause it felt like it was gonna break :p turned out okay, though. It was pretty fun and interesting!

But anyway, my questions! I notice the RAM voltage in HWMonitor was at 1.54v, when it should be at 1.5v. The BIOS setting for the voltage is 'auto'. I know it's probably nothing, but I thought I should mention it. No problems there, right?

The RAM seemed to be running at 1333 Mhz, when it's rated at 1600 Mhz. Is it okay to just bump the speed up to 1600 in the BIOS? (I need to use an option called "XMP profile 1" or something to set it to 1600 mhz, though). I've seen some threads on the interwebs where people speak about the processor needing to be "compatible" with the RAM speed, stuff I don't really understand. I guess there's no problem with my CPU though?

I've gotten a few BSODs while just browsing the internet. I was wondering if it's related to voltages (like mentioned before), or if it's something completely different. I'll Google the error code next time it happens though.

Last one for now: there's no big risk in overclocking the GPU is there? If it was done in small steps, no artifacts and no high temperatures? Just to be sure.

Thanks n' stuff :)
 
Awesomeish said:
Sorry for the bump, but I have a few more questions I hope someone doesn't mind answering here :D

The rebuilding went okay - the only real troubles were the fiddly parts (like trying to plug/unplug certain connectors), and installing the CPU was scary 'cause it felt like it was gonna break :p turned out okay, though. It was pretty fun and interesting!

But anyway, my questions! I notice the RAM voltage in HWMonitor was at 1.54v, when it should be at 1.5v. The BIOS setting for the voltage is 'auto'. I know it's probably nothing, but I thought I should mention it. No problems there, right?

The RAM seemed to be running at 1333 Mhz, when it's rated at 1600 Mhz. Is it okay to just bump the speed up to 1600 in the BIOS? (I need to use an option called "XMP profile 1" or something to set it to 1600 mhz, though). I've seen some threads on the interwebs where people speak about the processor needing to be "compatible" with the RAM speed, stuff I don't really understand. I guess there's no problem with my CPU though?
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1.54 is good. Anything below 1.65V is recommended. There is no resctriction regarding the ram speed and cpu speed on Sandy. Both use different multipliers and are independent.

Use XMP profile. But check voltage (should be around 1.5-1.6V). Should be something like 8-8-8-24-2T/2N, 1600mhz, 1.55V (or there about).

I've gotten a few BSODs while just browsing the internet. I was wondering if it's related to voltages (like mentioned before), or if it's something completely different. I'll Google the error code next time it happens though.
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Run memtest overnight to make sure the ram is stable. If you have errors, bump the ram voltage a notch and try again. But you should need under 1.6V for that ram. If you still have errors under xmp or at lower speed, it's faulty.

Last one for now: there's no big risk in overclocking the GPU is there? If it was done in small steps, no artifacts and no high temperatures? Just to be sure.Thanks n' stuff :)
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6850 can overclock fairly well. I usually recommend keeping under 20% overclock / overvolt. But overclock only if you need it.

As for blue screens, make sure you have the latest motherboard drivers from Gigabyte (sound, network drivers especially) website directly, and a 'good' BIOS (a bios that hasn't been fixed for instabilities by other bios updates).
 
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