Is modding or "hacking" your 360 illegal?

[AdladUK]

It is possible (although I am not certain) that a copyright/IP law of some sort exists in EU/USA that prevents people from making modifications to patented software (which firmware falls under). Plus you sign some sort of EULA when you join upto xbox live (I know u could change firmware and never use Live, but in practice people are not doing this!!).

rp2000

Thanks for the comprehensive response. That answered my question nicely

 

[ubern00b]

Well sure I understand that. My question wasn't just OcUK specific though. It seems hardly any where talks about it. I was wondering if MSFT pressure had something to do with that

There are thousands of websites detailing intimate details on this. Your search skills are failing you

 

[tom_e]

I disagree with you. I know plenty of people that don't want to get their prized 360 collection of discs damaged by frequent usage.

But yeah... No point in quibbling.

Even if you own the game legally you are still breaking the law by backing it up so thats not a reason for flashing it either

 

[rp2000]

Well sure I understand that. My question wasn't just OcUK specific though. It seems hardly any where talks about it. I was wondering if MSFT pressure had something to do with that

Whole forums and communities exist (where do you think the ppl with dodgy 360's here learnt?). Just not allowed here, I am sure a quick google will bring up relevant sites/forums

You're making a pre-determined assumption that people will break the law, based on a % "fact" you have made up in your head.

I disagree with you. I know plenty of people that don't want to get their prized 360 collection of discs damaged by frequent usage.

But yeah... No point in quibbling.

If people want their prized collections to not be damaged, they should contact Microsoft and ask them to make better machines or DVD drives (or whatever is causing read only media to get damaged by frequent usage).


rp2000

 

["andy"]

agree with you there rp2000

in the apple section of the forum they have various guides on how to hack the firmware so you can run pirated software and rob o2 from contracts

yet in here anything mentioning psp firmware that does the same thing dissapears within hours :/

 

[AdladUK]

agree with you there rp2000

in the apple section of the forum they have various guides on how to hack the firmware so you can run pirated software and rob o2 from contracts

yet in here anything mentioning psp firmware that does the same thing dissapears within hours :/

It seems British people LIKE to be controlled

 

[Streeteh]

You're making a pre-determined assumption that people will break the law, based on a % "fact" you have made up in your head.

I disagree with you. I know plenty of people that don't want to get their prized 360 collection of discs damaged by frequent usage.

Apologies for not getting my figures lined up perfectly. The point i was trying to get across is that the vast majority of users will be using it for pirating games.

The fact you say you know plenty of people that have modded their 360s to protect their games is moot, as everyone i know that has modded their 360 has done so to pirate games. Everyone can use personal experience to back up their argument, but it means bugger-all.

It's like saying people buy a R-4 chip for their Nintendo-DS so they can play videos on it. It's pretty much a given that they use it to pirate games, ok it may be useful for other things but the majority will want it to get things for free.

[EDIT] Also forgot to add:

Backing up games in anyway is completely illegal.

What would i do without you order.

 

[orderoftheflame]

You're making a pre-determined assumption that people will break the law, based on a % "fact" you have made up in your head.

I disagree with you. I know plenty of people that don't want to get their prized 360 collection of discs damaged by frequent usage.

But yeah... No point in quibbling.

Backing up games in anyway is completely illegal.

Since the NXE there is no valid excuse for modding. It may be legal to do, but I refuse to believe it's ever used for a legal reason now.

 

[Margaret]

Illegal or not you are very, very unlikely to get into any trouble for it.

Unless they have people knocking on your doors nowadays to pop in and scan the firmware of your 360's DVD drive.

 

[rp2000]

Illegal or not you are very, very unlikely to get into any trouble for it.

Unless they have people knocking on your doors nowadays to pop in and scan the firmware of your 360's DVD drive.

Haven't they busted you twice, already? Both times leaving you with 360's that you could no longer use on xbox live.

(A semi joke, but meaning surely the trouble you get in is when they decide to ban your console from Live, granted it is not "trouble" in the legal sense )


rp2000

 

[Margaret]

Haven't they busted you twice, already? Both times leaving you with 360's that you could no longer use on xbox live.

(A semi joke, but meaning surely the trouble you get in is when they decide to ban your console from Live, granted it is not "trouble" in the legal sense )


rp2000

First time I was out of the loop and didn't update my 360 for months with newer firmware, second time I downloaded a review copy of a game accidently and didn't double check it.

Was only a minor hassle though and both times I got banned I ended up with brand new, better 360's (Core to Premium first time and later on Premium to Elite ), as for now I haven't bothered flashing my elite as there's not really any decent console games aside from Killzone 2 coming out. (by that I mean exclusives) :|

 

[rp2000]

Was only a minor hassle though and both times I got banned I ended up with brand new, better 360's (Core to Premium first time and later on Premium to Elite ), as for now I haven't bothered flashing my elite as there's not really any decent console games aside from Killzone 2 coming out. (by that I mean exclusives) :|

So Microsoft rewarded you by giving you free Brand new consoles each time (upgrades no less!!)? I think I might try to flash mine if they are just banning you and then giving you new consoles as a punishment.

Do you think they can send me a Jasper, as the one I have is only a Falcon


rp2000

 

[Margaret]

So Microsoft rewarded you by giving you free Brand new consoles each time (upgrades no less!!)? I think I might try to flash mine if they are just banning you and then giving you new consoles as a punishment.

Do you think they can send me a Jasper, as the one I have is only a Falcon


rp2000

The first one I sold to someone who wasn't bothered about XBL (and it RROD'd sometime last year ) and the second one, well actually I can't even remember how I ended up getting an elite, I think I put about £20 towards it and it was so worth it, NXE had just came out so getting an extra 100Gb + the 360 matching my TV and PS3 was an easy decision!

I think the other one actually had a disc drive **** up about 3 weeks after getting banned, I wasn't even bothered about it being banned really because I never played anything online anyway.

 

[MURDEROUS G]

Backing up games in anyway is completely illegal.

The Copyright Designs & Patents Act seems to see things differently:

Section 50A: Back up copies

50A.-(1) It is not an infringement of copyright for a lawful user of a copy of a computer program to make any back up copy of it which it is necessary for him to have for the purposes of his lawful use.

 

[rp2000]

The Copyright Designs & Patents Act seems to see things differently:

This Act has subsequently been updated umpteen times (probably to try and keep up with semantics and technology ).

I think some amendments circa 2000 prohibited the copying of any software that already had its own copy protection methods. (ie the "crime" is breaking the software discs copy protection)

So for the same reason copying DVDs with RCE/CSS etc falls foul of this law (copying unprotected DVDs is OK) you cannot copy games (I think all optical disc based console games have had copy protection for years).

I am no expert on this, by any means, but I recall similar stuff happening in the USA, and that filtering to the EC, which may have meant subsequent amendments to the Act you quoted.


rp2000

 

[MURDEROUS G]

This Act has subsequently been updated umpteen times (probably to try and keep up with semantics and technology ).

I think some amendments circa 2000 prohibited the copying of any software that already had its own copy protection methods. (ie the "crime" is breaking the software discs copy protection)

So for the same reason copying DVDs with RCE/CSS etc falls foul of this law (copying unprotected DVDs is OK) you cannot copy games (I think all optical disc based console games have had copy protection for years).

I am no expert on this, by any means, but I recall similar stuff happening in the USA, and that filtering to the EC, which may have meant subsequent amendments to the Act you quoted.


rp2000

That's the 2005 amendment version I quoted from. More to come here, give me a sec - actually, it's nearly 2am and I'm a bit drunk and cba to plough through the text of the Act, heh. In short, I think you're right about amendments wrt. copy protection and such, but I thought that only prohibited the removal of said protection, i.e. stripping DRM from a copyrighted video file or some such? It was my understanding that making a 1:1 backup of the original media is A-OK if you own it, the practicality of doing this with console games I can't speak to as I don't own a console!

I've just skimmed the relevant bits of the most recent amendment to the Act and I don't see anything to contradict this, though I'm not an expert either and don't know the whole thing inside and out. It just strikes me from Section 50 that the rule of law seems to take the common-sense approach that if you bought and paid for the game or other media, then you have the right to back it up in case the original media is damaged, degrades, explodes, whatever. That's clearly what the spirit of the Act intends, at least.

 

[Kreeeee]

I have to ask, what does modding the firmware achieve other than allowing you to play pirated games? I can't think of anything.

If i'm right then that's why talk of it is banned on these forums; it only leads to illegal activities so why let people discuss it?

You can talk about it on here, but only to a certain extent and this thread treads close to the border.

The reason it's banned on here is that OcUK does not want to be associated with piracy (regardless of legalities) and so any links or in depth explanations on how to mod a console or where to get pirate games is a big no-no. There's nothing against discussions about the impact of piracy, why people do it and legalities etc.

Hope that helps

It is possible (although I am not certain) that a copyright/IP law of some sort exists in EU/USA that prevents people from making modifications to patented software (which firmware falls under). Plus you sign some sort of EULA when you join upto xbox live (I know u could change firmware and never use Live, but in practice people are not doing this!!).


Either way, can't talk about it here, and this thread will last less than 48 hours

You're not legally bound to EULA agreements IIRC, and I see no reason why this thread can't stay as the thread's about the legalities of modding the 360. Although, if the few people you mention predictably spoil it then yeah I suppose it will have to be closed.

 

[rp2000]

That's the 2005 amendment version I quoted from. (more to come here, give me a sec)

It is quite possible I am wrong. I am thinking of a USA based case that set some precedence for protecting copy protected discs. I think it was close to 2000 as I think part of it may have been to do with the DCMA at in USA.

Circumventing copy protection is definitely not allowed in USA, I am sure the EC made as ammend our laws to "match up" with the USA.

The arrogant man in me says, that if the UK law was such that we were allowed to do this then more information would be available and it would be discussed more, and quite possibly this thread would not have arisen. Thus for me to be right, you have to be wrong

(hope the thread lasts long enough for you to update )

You're not legally bound to EULA agreements IIRC, and I see no reason why this thread can't stay as the thread's about the legalities of modding the 360. Although, if the few people you mention predictably spoil it then yeah I suppose it will have to be closed.

Hopefully it will stay

All this EULA stuff is such a weird grey area tbh. I am sure it is unenforceable in a court of Law (UK), suffice to say, for the purposes of this thread, where the OP asked about "break any agreements or laws?" the EULA is an agreement that he would be breaking.


rp2000

 

[Kreeeee]

Fair point rp, I had overlooked that particular word in the OP

 

[WatchTower]

Surely installing the 360 games so the disc only spins a couple of seconds to confirm it's a legit copy is will keep beloved games in good condition for longer.