Is my AIO working as it should?

KungFuSpaghetti

KungFuSpaghetti

KungFuSpaghetti

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I recently changed out my case to the new Lian Li o11 dynamic and CPU cooler from my trusty noctua d14 and im seeing some odd stuff.

I replaced the noctua with the coolermaster ML360R aio and idle temps are marginally lower, but during some cinebench test runs the CPU got over 84 degrees!?!? This never even hit 80 degrees on my noctua, highest was 78.

What I have noticed however is that I get a higher score on cb20 with the 360 aio and the cores seem to be boosting higher. Still, can't help but feel these temps are way too high... should I be concerned?
 
Which cpu? Is it overclocked or stock?

Also, did you use stock thermal paste or put fresh on? If fresh, are you sure you have enough/not too much?

Are the fans mounted the correct way wherever you have them on the case? Presumably you have them to the left of the motherboard?

Sorry for the obvious questions, but all could be a cause of high temps maybe?
 
It's a 3900x, totally stock, no XFR, no PBO and fresh noctua thermal paste.

Aio fans are mounted case side pushing air or through the rad, I have another 3 intake fans pulling in from the front side (lian li dynamic o11) at the moment and have another x3 fans ordered to pull air in from the bottom.

Yeah fans are 100% mounted in these correct direction too. Beginning to think the pump is broken...

Oh, fan header the pump is connected to is also set to 100% in w/ pump mode and monitoring CPU.
 
Having just gone through a round of changes to save a few degrees, including repasting my gpu, I guess the real question is what are the temps when under normal circumstances?

Getting caught up on benchmark temps could be a path to unnecessary changes. The pump may be broken I guess, and certainly I would expect a 360 rad to cool better, but maybe those really are the temps under load? Especially if it is boosting higher...
 
Idle seems similar to noctua, as do gaming temps. Maybe I just expected more, but seems weird that a 360 rad sees higher temps. I'll have to do a few more runs and pay attention to all core boost when fully loaded. I think the noctua was 4'075 all core.
 
Sounds like a good plan to start with. Otherwise you will potentially drive yourself nuts over it.
I would expect more from a 360 rad for sure, but all those cores do generate a lot of heat...
 
360mm radiator is only 1 part of many determining cooling ability. Waterblock microfins and pump are equally as important. First heat has to move from CPU IHS through base into water and then water must flow faste enough to keep base cool. Considering CoolerMaster gives no flow or lift specs. for their pump is is fair to assume pump is not at all powerful. CLC pumps have no flow and lift specs because they flow about as fast as healthy adult can urinate (50-60L/h). AIOs like be quiet! Silent Loop and Alphacool Eisbaer pump specs are up to about 70L/h & 0.85m lift, while EK-D5 pump (most popular custom loop pump) is rated up to 1500L/h and 3.9m lift.
 
Doyll, I'm not trying to determine cooling ability in the sense you're insinuating, I just want to know if there's an issue, not a diatribe into why you think aio's are garbage. I've had aio before on my GPU and my experience was a positive one.

I've gone off several reviews before picking this one, as (to me) it looks good and on paper would comfortably out perform my noctua. It does out perform my noctua in cinebench scores, but at 7 to 8 degrees more.
 
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Seems you don't want to be confused by the truth, instead believing review sites are giving your the truth. Fact is most CLCs are no better if even as good as top tier air cooling. Reviewers depend on free samples from manufacturers to be able to keep their review sites open. So of course they are not going to say much if anything bad about products. CLCs (like you have) area a sub-group of AIO. Some AIOs have much better pumps with published flow and lift specs, threaded fittings, fill ports, copper radiators, etc. CLCs do not have any of these. Your fans have published airflow and static pressure specs, yet you think your CLC pump shouldn 't have same publish specs?

If the review sites you refer to are not using accurate test procedures then result are way off. Things like using air temp reading taking at room's thermostat as baseline air temp instead of monitoring and recording air temp entering cooler/radiator a same time as CPU temps are recorded mean results not going to be accurate.

Believe what you want, hopefully you will eventually learn and know better.
 
I get where you are coming from, at the same time I looked at the benchmark temp and noise roundup(s) of the usual YouTube tech sites and temps on the test rigs (usually Intel) the temps for this cooler were generally lower than other units tested. The reviews half the time were for other aio's but the Ml360r usually makes it into comparison charts and does well.

I'm more than willing to strip it out, send it back and try a different unit... but what. I want a 360 rad, rgb and zero or low maintenance, so custom loop is out.
 
I understand how you got the data you did, but it is not accurate. There are very few sites gathering data accurately. I've included link to what is needed to do accurate testing. Granted, it's extreme, but it does show how many variables are involved. But at the very least for a reviewer's results to be even remotely accurate they have to be monitoring and recording air temp entering cooling component at same time CPU temp is recorded and using that delta for comparison.
https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/3561-cpu-cooler-testing-methodology-most-tests-are-flawed
 
I think there's something up with my cooler either way tbh, as temps shouldn't be as high as they are after a couple of test runs on cinebench. I think I'll return it.

Is there any kit you would recommend? I see that EKWB do one
 
I'm really not knowledgeable on water cooling as I haven't used any in many years. All my knowledge is 7+ years old as I haven't used water cooling in like 12-13 years after testing early Thermalright heatpipe coolers like XP-90c, Ultra 90, Ultra 120, Cogage Arrow, IFX-14 with HR-10 way back in 2007-2008 if memory serves. What case do you have. Do you still have your NH-D14? D-14 is still one of the best coolers made, especially with newer fans. When we tested it against D-15 with D-15's fans D-14 temps were 1-2c lower than D-15. Not enough for a definite 'better cooler' rating but enough to say it is definitely is a little better on i7 920 @ 4.3Ghz. Key to good air cooling is supplying cooler with room temp air because every degree warmer air is entering cooler meand CPU will be same degree hotter. Switching from air to CLC and having lower temps is because radiator is usually mounted as intake so using room temp air .. and even as exhaust it's usually 2 more case fans so better case airflow.

Best pre-filled I know of is Swiftech Drive X3, but don't think it's avialible in UK. AIOs are better than CLCs, but not near as well built as a decent custom loop. Generally the more components cost, the better the system is. Not always true, but a good rule of thumb.

One of the best review sites was Martinsliquidlab, but been out of thr game for like 7 years now. He tested Laing DDC 3.2 and XSPC EX360 radiator, but not EK Supremacy EVO.
https://martinsliquidlab.wordpress.com/2011/03/10/pump-noise-testing-round-1/

EKWB 360 kit looks decent. Not cheap but not near as expensive as top tier custom loop. Lowest price EKWB 360 kit is £309.95. Waterblock is £35, radi is £100, pump is £100 + reservoir £50, 6 fittings £40-50 and hose
£15, coolant £10, fans £46 is £306 and there are a few other goodies included in kit making it as good or better deal. I wouldn't use EK-Vardar F4-120ER fans, but they are generally ok.

But like I said, I haven't been into water cooling in too many years to be making suggestions.
 
I've got a Lian Li o11 Dynamic Der Bauer one (assuming it's identical to the normal dynamic!) and I still have the D14, it's actually sat on the desk in front of me. It's sadly too big to fit in this case though, on paper it's 5mm too large, but in reality it's only 3mm... but still, it wont fit sadly or I'd be using it still, as it's served me well on x58 4.4ghz Xeon x5650, used it on my 2700x fine and again on this 3900x in my previous case no issue.

It's really odd, as the ML360R is allowing higher boost clocks, gets better results in bench tests for CPU results, but it runs even hotter though, which makes no sense. I've got the ML360R mounted as exhaust and it's on the roof of the case. Airflow is generally good I think, as I have x3 intake fans and my GPU runs a lot cooler in this case, 58 degrees observed playing Civ 6 after hours and hours, where previous case it sat in the mid 60's.

I saw the custom EKWB kits, but they also do for £150ish a closed loop kit like the one I have, but again no flow rates etc... although I cant actually find any info on how flow rate actually makes a difference beyond a certain point, does faster moving liquid have a law of diminishing returns beyond a point?

Really, I should get one of these gravity based coolers, just a shame they are hideous, but appear to out perform even custom loops without so much as breaking a sweat!
 
Bummer.

I'm not up on new AMD chips so can't help. Definitely strange having higher temps and higher results. I assume temp is what mobo says? Could you reverse fans to see if temps improve? Only if it's easy to do.

Indeed, coolant flowrate is a science of it's own, but I think it is fair to say CLC pump flowrate is marginal at best, more likely "wimpy' is better definition. ;) Below rate to temp data shows quite a difference between 420L/h and 1200L/h. Even 420L/h to 450L/h is an improvement .. but CLC pumps only move 40-60L/h. 420L/h is 7-10.5 times more coolant flow than CLC. Alphacool Aisbaer and be quiet! Silent Loop pumps flow 72L/h which is 180% of 40L/h and 120% more than 60L/h CLC pumps flow, yet only 10-15% of 420L/h. Also CLC radiators are super cheap so don't transfer heat to air as well as even cheapest component copper radiators do and it seems kinda obvious that CLCs.

Asetek originally called them LCLC for Low Cost Liquid Cooling)
https://hothardware.com/reviews/asetek-low-cost-liquid-cooling-lclc-system?page=2

Pump . . . . . . . XSPC Single 420 Bayres . Magicool MC-DCP450 . XSPC Photon Laing D
Flow Rate . . . . 7 L/min . 420 L/h . . . . . 7.5 L/min . 450 L/h . . . 20 L/min . 1200 L/h
Temperature . . 74°c . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 73°c . . . . . . . . . . . . 67°c

Hopefully the below AIO & CLC pump data I collected up to a few years ago including some users measuring CLC flowrate might be of interest.
84253_AIO__CLC_pump__radiator_spec_wip.png
 
I'll have to try turning the fans around later, that would result in equal pressure at the moment as I only have x6 120mm fans.

I'm using hwinfo64 to monitor temps, so, today I'm logged into my VDI at work, Civ 6 late(ish) game running, I have my coding software open, discord, steam (plus other bloaty game apps) and the usual keyboard, headset crap etc etc.
Temps are:
Minimum: 30.3 degrees
Maximum: 64.1 degrees
Average: 41.0 degrees

This is fairly similar to my Noctua temps I'd see in my old case... Only real difference is that on Civ 6 I have at any one time, x4 cores on my first CCX holding a minimum in game boost of 4.5ghz and periodically must be going over 4.6ghz. They only ever hit about 4.2ghz before at most playing Civ... I'm so bloody confused with the behaviour of this chip/cooler now... I get that higher thermal headroom allows bigger boost clocks, but that doesnt explain the fact that when pushed the AIO registers higher max temps. Seeing this 3900x hitting 85 degrees gives me pause for alarm!
 
Having the AIO on the side with fans extracting air through the radiator and out the back with an additional 3 fans at the bottom bring air in should make a difference. I would also use at least one fan placed in the top bringing air in over the VRM's...all the air will be extracted via the AIO fans...
 
KungFuSpaghetti said:
It's a 3900x, totally stock, no XFR, no PBO and fresh noctua thermal paste.

Aio fans are mounted case side pushing air or through the rad, I have another 3 intake fans pulling in from the front side (lian li dynamic o11) at the moment and have another x3 fans ordered to pull air in from the bottom.

Yeah fans are 100% mounted in these correct direction too. Beginning to think the pump is broken...

Oh, fan header the pump is connected to is also set to 100% in w/ pump mode and monitoring CPU.
Click to expand...

If you have it completely stock and its hitting 84c either you've not put it on right or there is an issue with the unit. Even your noctua temp seems really high given the total stock settings.

Wouldn't bother with the EK stuff - have a look at the arctic cooler freezer II line of coolers.
 
varinder said:
Having the AIO on the side with fans extracting air through the radiator and out the back with an additional 3 fans at the bottom bring air in should make a difference. I would also use at least one fan placed in the top bringing air in over the VRM's...all the air will be extracted via the AIO fans...
Click to expand...

I'm not sure if it will reach that far to mount at the side, as that was my initial thoughts regarding mounting, having the AIO pull air in from the front/side. I've got x3 fans for the bottom on order but probably no point having a fan at the top in this case as there's no exhaust at the back on the Lian Li O11 and my VRM temps have never seen anything above 50 degrees. I'm running a pretty typical setup for this case I think...?

Ross Thomson said:
If you have it completely stock and its hitting 84c either you've not put it on right or there is an issue with the unit. Even your noctua temp seems really high given the total stock settings.

Wouldn't bother with the EK stuff - have a look at the arctic cooler freezer II line of coolers.
Click to expand...

Yup, never overclocked as never saw the point. I've timed my ram and IF and that's it. I thought the temps seemed alarmingly high for the type of kit, so I'll try re-pasting and mounting it again and if it's still hitting those temps I'll send it back to rain forrest for a replacement or get something else. I was going to get the freezer II as you've suggested, but it was out of stock everywhere and OCUK sent my new case earlier than expected lol. The freezer with some rgb fans would look pretty nice with the Bykski fans I've got ordered if I go that route.

FYI, my Noctua was also in a different case, a much smaller one. Fractal Design Define C is pretty cramped...think it's slightly smaller than 400x400x22 lol
 
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