Is our or the next generation in danger of burning itself out?

Freefaller · 18 Oct 2013 at 10:03

What has made me think of this is chatting to people of my parent's generation (post war baby boom) and comparing them to today's younger generation.

What struck me was the number of people drinking huge amounts of coffee and energy drinks, access to more recreational drugs and the fact that compared to them we seem to be less active, less "healthy". Now of course this is discounting advances in medical care, congenital issues, and the fact we've cured and are ontop of a lot more diseases than we were.

If all things being equal, how do you think our or the next generation fare against our parent's in terms of general "well being"?

I worry (not actively worry, more postulate), as to whether with the influx of energy drinks, ease of access of recreational drugs, coffee and increasingly desk based/computer based working environments whether or not we're heading down a slippery slope?
Again all things being equal, I reckon that in the future the younger generations may potentially suffer more from heart issues, or central nervous system problems owing to the diets/lifestyles people follow these days, compared to that of previous generations.

Sure, the baby boomers, did have access to coffee, and sometimes prescribed people cigarettes to smoke and other products which now days would be considered bad for you (everything gives you cancer now days right?

), but they didn't have as much of it, or it wasn't as integrated into their daily lives, or was it? Again this is purely from conversations I've had with people, since I wasn't there I can't state this as fact

Or do you reckon there's absolutely no difference, and we're actually in "a better place" than we were 60 years ago?

I agree that medically we're in a better place, and our understanding of disease, health and nutrition is better - but do our lifestyle reflect these advances or do you, like me, feel we're regressing slightly in terms of healthy living? I know there are a lot of tabloid headlines stating that we're becoming a nation of fatties, type 2 diabetes is on the increase, etc...

Now heart surgery and detection is becoming better - so whilst heart surgery may decrease, it's undoubtedly owing to better understanding. All things being equal I reckon the number would increase?

I guess what I'm driving at, is that as we're developing, are we taking for granted that the medical care will improve, and not being as careful, or is this a total non issue?

tom_e · 18 Oct 2013 at 10:05

They'll be able to patch us up better, but it's like sticking your finger over one hole in a sieve.
The way we're going the only way people will survive is to be dosed up on even more drugs and chopped up to fix things.

Freefaller · 18 Oct 2013 at 10:16

That concept scares me a little - do you reckon we'll have a massive "reboot"? Or do you reckon that the government/authorities will just become even more oppressive towards people's freedom and free will, and restrict things even further?

I don't know what's worse... people being allowed to ruin themselves, or freedoms being removed for the greater good...

MrMoonX · 18 Oct 2013 at 10:18

Caffeine isn't the issue, the massive stress of modern life and people having to work stupid hours is what will finish people off

div0 · 18 Oct 2013 at 10:23

Coffee - Nope
Recreational drugs - Nope
Smoke - Nope
Energy drinks - maybe average one a month
Active - Yes

I think I'll be ok.

For the average joe in the street, I don't know if the modern lifestyle is worse than it used to be. I would think that we're possibly more aware of what constitutes 'healthiness' now though.

elmarko · 18 Oct 2013 at 10:24

A couple of interesting charts. (the slight reduction in sugar in the top table recently was due to the increase of HFCS iirc)

NotAGolf · 18 Oct 2013 at 10:26

I think at the end of the day people will do what they want to do regardless of the medical options available.

No one believes downing 5 cans a red bull a day is good for health, but they'll do it anyway. I'm pretty certain that the thought of "Oh well, at least the docs can sort me out if this goes pear shaped" never enters their head.

But then again, I guess there are exceptions. People that continue to get fat and think that they're ok as they can get a gastric band and a tummy tuck for example (yes I know this is a daily mail-esque claim!).

Tbh, I'm more worried about the medical care being too good. It sounds horrible, but I don't really want to see people getting to 70, retiring, and sitting around in a chair for another 40 years as the pills are keeping them alive.

Living to over 100 only appeals to me if we get robot like bodies so we are physically the same whether 20 years old or 120

tom_e · 18 Oct 2013 at 10:26

The government and other powers that be will continue to push their "healthy eating" ideology which anyone with an ounce of knowledge on the subject knows is complete crap, things like red bull and the like will probably stay around but end up being taxed to high heaven, all forms of illicit drugs will just be pushed further and further underground so the stuff that people can actually get access to will be of even poorer quality and more dangerous to their health in the same way things like ecstasy these days is mostly filled with muck compared to the stuff that was available in the late 80s/early 90s.

One day it'll all come tumbling down but by then we'll be surviving on even more easy to produce cheap nasty food because that's all we'll have the room to produce but it's ok because the drug companies will have invented some new wonder pills that will "fix" the damage they are doing so lets just start throwing them around like sweets.

Unfortunately I can't see a way out of it without major changes to main stream thinking on health and nutrition, which won't happen while the big business have their profits to look after.

This tinfoil hat looks rather good on me.

Dj_Jestar · 18 Oct 2013 at 10:30

Personally I think things will get worse, but eventually it'll just stop. It'll become "unfashionable" or just not the done thing to comply once we are past comfort. Or some super drug gets invented that magically generates ATP and Glucose without the bad bits.

However as the population has doubled in the last 40 years, things will get tougher yet.

doofer · 18 Oct 2013 at 10:31

The 'Western' World is breeding a Generation of inadequate Males who rely on the 'Internet' to make the simplest of decisions, these inept Males are also suffering the constant emasculation from rising Feminism, enforced by confused Females who thanks to the Mass Media don't know whether to be future Mothers or pseudo-Celebrities. Coffee and Red Bull is the least of our future problems methinks.

BlackCoat2k10 · 18 Oct 2013 at 10:33

Freefaller said:
That concept scares me a little - do you reckon we'll have a massive "reboot"? Or do you reckon that the government/authorities will just become even more oppressive towards people's freedom and free will, and restrict things even further?

I don't know what's worse... people being allowed to ruin themselves, or freedoms being removed for the greater good...

I agree on many of your points, our knowledge on health is a lot better than it used to be, our understanding of the world and nature is far greater. However people are more reliant on others to pick up their mess, lazier, more complaining, more intelligent but less applying.

I personally think it will be more of an oppressive nature that leads towards an 'uprising' (Read: Backlash of the public) that will eventually lead to some form of "Reboot".

Freefaller · 18 Oct 2013 at 10:34

MrMoonX said:
Caffeine isn't the issue, the massive stress of modern life and people having to work stupid hours is what will finish people off

You're probably right. However, I'm sure they were stressed "back then", however now with technology we're always connected and never really "swith off".

Dj_Jestar said:
Personally I think things will get worse, but eventually it'll just stop. It'll become "unfashionable" or just not the done thing to comply once we are past comfort. Or some super drug gets invented that magically generates ATP and Glucose without the bad bits.

However as the population has doubled in the last 40 years, things will get tougher yet.

I reckon you're probably right.

I personally find it frightening.

platypus · 18 Oct 2013 at 10:37

Freefaller said:
I guess what I'm driving at, is that as we're developing, are we taking for granted that the medical care will improve, and not being as careful, or is this a total non issue?

I think that we're at risk of putting too much faith in medical science. By which I mean it has become, and will continue to be so good, that we as a society sit back and expect it will cure us of "all ails".

Xordium · 18 Oct 2013 at 10:37

Freefaller said:
are we taking for granted that the medical care will improve

Yes, in my opinion things are declining and will continue to do so for most. We have no answer for disease resistance and that will put a damper on everything especially at an affordable level.

elmarko · 18 Oct 2013 at 10:40

I'd also say that if as as society one of our goals is to reduce obesity, we need to spend some time & money (along with thought) in investigating the kinds of triggers & traits which in later life develop into obesity.

Already with a couple of very simple tests on hyperbolic discounting you can say statistically to a reasonably high degree of accuracy if a 8 year old child is going to grow up into being obese or not (compared to random guess-work).

Targeted education for these fields, further study into genetic propensities for food addiction & a greater social understanding which leads to binge eating, or what causes people to lack the self-control they require to stay trim.

The problem with this (like many fields) is that our science is already years ahead of our social discussions & policy ideas - which leads to ineffective governmental proposals & general ignorance to the causal factors relating to obesity in the general population (which further exasperates the issue).

Puzzled · 18 Oct 2013 at 10:44

MrMoonX said:
Caffeine isn't the issue, the massive stress of modern life and people having to work stupid hours is what will finish people off

That and work emails coming through at all hours and my annoying habit of checking my phone before going to bed.

While the substances you mention most likely aren't doing us any favours, I think what we really need to look at is why people use them in the first place.

Long work hours for example will drive the use of energy drinks / caffeine but is a workforce with all this **** in their systems actually as productive as those who have time to properly rest.

Alcohol and recreational drugs seem to be used to escape the reality of the day to day lives and if you have to do that then you probably aren't very happy with how things are going.

Look at the amount of people who spend a crazy amounts on booze every Friday night just to forget about the working week.

The combination of unhealthy lives and minds is what screws us over.

div0 · 18 Oct 2013 at 10:44

elmarko said:
A couple of interesting charts. (the slight reduction in sugar in the top table recently was due to the increase of HFCS iirc)

Your second graph is only really valid to 2010, with the large increase at the end being a 'projected' figure.

However, there is now some data which suggests that America's Obesity Levels may have 'plateaued' since 2010.

In 2012, about 34.9% of the people in this country were obese, which is roughly 35 pounds over a healthy weight. That is not significantly different from the 35.7% who were obese in 2010.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/10/17/obesity-rate-levels-off/2895759/

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/08/16/us-usa-obesity-idUSBRE97F0QI20130816

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/264970.php

There's no doubt that the US still has problems with obesity, but your graph (particularly the projected data), would appear to exaggerate the speed with which this is getting worse.

Also, the data on which your graphs were based, seems to indicate that it is the over 60's who had the worst levels of obesity.

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/databriefs/db82.pdf

wordy · 18 Oct 2013 at 10:49

Pushing healthy eating n all that is all well and good, but personal responsiblity need to be pushed as well. People can blame the government all they want but the individuals must take responsiblity for what they are buying and eating.

elmarko · 18 Oct 2013 at 10:51

div0 said:
Your second graph is only really valid to 2010, with the large increase at the end being a 'projected' figure.

However, there is now some data which suggests that America's Obesity Levels may have 'plateaued' since 2010.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/10/17/obesity-rate-levels-off/2895759/

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/08/16/us-usa-obesity-idUSBRE97F0QI20130816

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/264970.php

There's no doubt that the US still has problems with obesity, but your graph (particularly the projected data), would appear to exaggerate the speed with which this is getting worse.

Also, the data on which your graphs were based, seems to indicate that it is the over 60's who had the worst levels of obesity.

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/databriefs/db82.pdf

Indeed, I'm not saying it's going to constantly get worse - just showing a strong correlation between sugar consumption & obesity (which should hardly be surprising).

The projected I'd wager was on the assumption it would continue at it's current rate (it's a few years old the study).

wordy said:
Pushing healthy eating n all that is all well and good, but personal responsiblity need to be pushed as well. People can blame the government all they want but the individuals must take responsiblity for what they are buying and eating.

But the government educates it's citizens which in turn can highly influence the ability to make those choices/take the responsibility you talk about.

As a persons ability to make choices is highly determined by his upbringing & education, personal responsibility doesn't end with the person - the ability to make sensible long term choices is a learned/taught skill like any other.

Freefaller · 18 Oct 2013 at 10:53

MonkeyMan said:
That and work emails coming through at all hours and my annoying habit of checking my phone before going to bed.

While the substances you mention most likely aren't doing us any favours, I think what we really need to look at is why people use them in the first place.

Long work hours for example will drive the use of energy drinks / caffeine but is a workforce with all this **** in their systems actually as productive as those who have time to properly rest.

Alcohol and recreational drugs seem to be used to escape the reality of the day to day lives and if you have to do that then you probably aren't very happy with how things are going.

Look at the amount of people who spend a crazy amounts on booze every Friday night just to forget about the working week.

The combination of unhealthy lives and minds is what screws us over.

I agree - I was only using those substances as a trigger for the conversation.

I don't really drink, I eat super healthily 95% of the time, and exercise regularly. However, I'll probably keel over before the unhealthy lot

I turn off my work phone as soon as I get home and I do what I can to minimise the stresses and strains in my life.

I guess money and life now becomes such a priority and is so expensive for people that it's constantly in the back of their mind.

Like elmarko says, we need to perhaps start to better understand the triggers behind behaviour rather than relying solely on magic pills, and dependence on modern medicine, which I believe is something we depend too greatly on rather than taking responsibility for our own well being.

wordy said:
Pushing healthy eating n all that is all well and good, but personal responsiblity need to be pushed as well. People can blame the government all they want but the individuals must take responsiblity for what they are buying and eating.

Agreed.