Is our or the next generation in danger of burning itself out?

[Amp34]

Caffeine isn't the issue, the massive stress of modern life and people having to work stupid hours is what will finish people off

People work less hours now than they used to. We have more free time as well, the big difference is we now sit at home in front of the TV rather than go out.

EDIT: http://personal.lse.ac.uk/minns/Huberman_Minns_EEH_2007.pdf

Specifically page 542, 548 and 549

Just because ideologically it's "true" doesn't mean it is actually true. Although I admit it does end in 2000, perhaps we have had a significant increase in working hours since then, however I doubt it. I'd also wager stresses of work are much less than 50 years ago, where more people were just surviving.

EDIT 2: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16082186 Actually, no rise at all since 2000...

 

[elmarko]

we need to perhaps start to better understand the triggers behind behaviour rather than relying solely on magic pills, and dependence on modern medicine, which I believe is something we depend too greatly on rather than taking responsibility for our own well being.

I completely agree, prevention is almost always better than cure (not to mention usually cheaper & easier).

But I'd add to the latter part, we need to as a society also need to take responsibility to ensure the following generations also have the skills required to exercise the self-control needed.

If a child's mother is malnourished for example, the baby's gene expression will be altered (epigenetic's) into being more statistically likely to hold onto fat (compared to others) - if I recall correctly this was observed in pregnant women in Poland during WW2 (starved for prolonged periods, then had children who were far more prone to obesity) - which makes evolutionary sense, as if a child during gestation is expecting to come into a world of scarcity will be 'set-up' in such a way to maximise fat storage.

Then other studies showing that children from broken homes, abused (sexually or physically) - grow up in a household surrounded by violence or poverty become short-term hedonistic in their behaviour - finding it harder for information to change behaviour (due to a lack of stability & trust that the future will turn out as planned) - are more likely to go-to prison, become obese, drug addicted, unemployed, suicidal or depressed - loads of interesting studies in temporal/hyperbolic discounting & how these impact on later life.

 

[Greboth]

Simple answer is yes we are in danger and I think we will hit a reboot at some point. I think the problem will be medical in the future, which is due to the drugs fix all attitude the is growing today. Though we have a better grasp on medicine and it is improving all the time I believe we are pushing ourselves for a bigger and bigger fall. We are already starting to suffer the consequences of drug resistant strains and I believe at some point we are going to hit a real problem with that. The Spanish flu wiped out millions of people and while we have better communication and (I would hope) better quarantine control but I can't help but ponder how long until we end up with an infectious disease that is drug resistant? With world population and density ever increasing if an event like it happens again the death toll could easily be multiple that of the Spanish flu.

 

[Amp34]

I completely agree, prevention is almost always better than cure (not to mention usually cheaper & easier).

But I'd add to the latter part, we need to as a society also need to take responsibility to ensure the following generations also have the skills required to exercise the self-control needed.

If a child's mother is malnourished for example, the baby's gene expression will be altered (epigenetic's) into being more statistically likely to hold onto fat (compared to others) - if I recall correctly this was observed in pregnant women in Poland during WW2 (starved for prolonged periods, then had children who were far more prone to obesity) - which makes evolutionary sense, as if a child during gestation is expecting to come into a world of scarcity will be 'set-up' in such a way to maximise fat storage.

Then other studies showing that children from broken homes, abused (sexually or physically) - grow up in a household surrounded by violence or poverty become short-term hedonistic in their behaviour - finding it harder for information to change behaviour (due to a lack of stability & trust that the future will turn out as planned) - are more likely to go-to prison, become obese, drug addicted, unemployed, suicidal or depressed - loads of interesting studies in temporal/hyperbolic discounting & how these impact on later life.

Should that not be the other way round as well then? I.e. children of obese mothers shoud have genes that make them statistically less likely to hold fat? As it is in general those with obese parents have obese children, possibly from bad eating and excercising habits?

 

[elmarko]

Should that not be the other way round as well then? I.e. children of obese mothers shoud have genes that make them statistically less likely to hold fat? As it is in general those with obese parents have obese children, possibly from bad eating and excercising habits?

Not really, we've only had an abundance of high sugar food for the last hundred years compared to 200,000 years of evolution & fine tuning to survive scarcity.

Obesity is are in the natural animal kingdom for a few reasons, firstly to obtain food expends energy - secondly once obese the ability to evade predators/obtain foods is diminished resulting it it not really occurring.

As now we have protected against that kind natural selection via the ease of availability of food & medicine - coupled with the fact these changes take hundreds or thousands of years it may either occur a long time in the future or possible never (due to our influence on evolution).

 

[Resident]

Caffeine isn't the issue, the massive stress of modern life and people having to work stupid hours is what will finish people off

I can attest to this. I've recently moved depts in work. The business I work for is open 8am-9pm 7 days a week and I've gone from a team of 65 to a team of 12 yet we still have to cover these hours between us. It means that there's less of us to cover the workload and longer hours and it's taking it's toll.

Typically on an 8am start because of travel I'm leaving my house at 6:15am, getting to work, working till 7pm (though there are 2 1/2 breaks) and then not getting home till nearly 9pm at which point there's only time for a quick meal, shower and then it's bedtime. I have no real 'down-time' until my day off which is spent just doing nothing as I'm knackered.

Caffeine is the only thing keeping me going tbh.

 

[Dave M]

Should that not be the other way round as well then? I.e. children of obese mothers shoud have genes that make them statistically less likely to hold fat?

the 'same sequence in reverse' idea only works with haynes manuals. And then only in theory.

 

[elmarko]

the 'same sequence in reverse' idea only works with haynes manuals. And then only in theory.

- indeed.

People also forget that holding onto fat reserves has been a great thing for humanity up until only very recently in our evolution.

Our society has changed quicker than our bodies.

 

[Glaucus]

It is a trend that isn't sustainable, we cant afford to keep chucking money at the nhs to patch us up better, although I'm sure they will. Theres only so much tax you can collect and spend. So unless medical treatment gets cheaper.

I think there will also be a divide us fatties, and those who do to much high intensity cardio.

Where actually we need the middle ground, need more slow but constant activity, stand up for a decent amount of the day and do some cardio and strip out a lot of the modern refined stuff from our diet, which is where things like paleo comes in, i don't think its needed to be so strict, but its an easy way to clean up your diet.

 

[Glaucus]

Caffeine isn't the issue, the massive stress of modern life and people having to work stupid hours is what will finish people off

Bahhhhaaaaa, what compared to the stress of finding your next meal, dieseas, death etc, and back breaking all day work of centuries past.

People who think its hard now, good god.

 

[Amp34]

- indeed.

People also forget that holding onto fat reserves has been a great thing for humanity up until only very recently in our evolution.

Our society has changed quicker than our bodies.

I understand that, it was more a hypothetical question as the general rule of thumb is if you are fat your children will probably be.

 

[matthab]

I drink decaf coffee and very rarely have a full coffee. Dont drink and dont smoke. I do have the occasional energy drink for long drives etc.

Then again suffer from acid reflux so I have to watch what i chuck in. Its more stress which affects me.

 

[elmarko]

I understand that, it was more a hypothetical question as the general rule of thumb is if you are fat your children will probably be.

Yes - you are correct, parental influence will play a huge part (poor diet of parents may get passed on, as may the inability to exercise self-control).

But our genetics (historic) or gene-expression (parents situation during pregnant) will also play a part, it's a combination of a huge range of factors.

If we want to combat them, we need to put in place safeguards against them.

Ideally, we want to ensure that the following generations are equipped with the self-control required to make good long term life choices (which would benefit all of us, not just related to obesity but hundreds of other negative behaviours which can surface as a result of this skill deficit).

Bahhhhaaaaa, what compared to the stress of finding your next meal, dieseas, death etc, and back breaking all day work of centuries past.

People who think its hard now, good god.

Hard physical labour was much more common historically yes, but taxing monotonous mental labour is more common now (which seems to be related to depression & getting fat.

Both have different downsides.

 

[Freakbro]

Bahhhhaaaaa, what compared to the stress of finding your next meal, dieseas, death etc, and back breaking all day work of centuries past.

People who think its hard now, good god.

I don't think the two are equatable tbh, the 'stress' of the modern world is far more mental health orientated (anxiety, depression, sleep disorders) and a lot of that is down to the speed of the modern world, the 24 hr society, internet, mobile phones etc. in that we rarely just switch off now.

 

[anything I don't mind]

There is far more information on being healthy around today than there was 50-60 years ago. These days you can get fresh fruit of all kinds, vitamin supplements, gyms are all over the place, there is a massive exercise culture, running and biking is bigger now than ever.

Biggest change in my opinion is like you have said the move away from manual labour work in to more automation and office jobs. If those people do not exercise then they will be worse off than their parents. Coffee and sugar and drug, legal and illegal, are also contributing factors at making people unhealthy.

My dad lost his teeth when he was in his childhood due to cheap juice mix drinks and not brushing his teeth. He also ate very low quality meals growing up he tells me. He said in comparison the choices we have available today and the quality of the food is much greater than it used to be. The idea that we could get salad in a bag imported from another country and still be fresh is relatively new.

 

[Glaucus]

I don't think the two are equatable tbh, the 'stress' of the modern world is far more mental health orientated (anxiety, depression, sleep disorders) and a lot of that is down to the speed of the modern world, the 24 hr society, internet, mobile phones etc. in that we rarely just switch off now.

I don't buy it, people just complain more these days becuase they can.
Do you really think a few hundred years ago they where not stressed. Working long hours etc.
Its just we have the comfort now so that we can complain, we can see the news where ever it is the world, suicide is reported etc.

 

[Atlas23]

The 'Western' World is breeding a Generation of inadequate Males who rely on the 'Internet' to make the simplest of decisions, these inept Males are also suffering the constant emasculation from rising Feminism, enforced by confused Females who thanks to the Mass Media don't know whether to be future Mothers or pseudo-Celebrities. Coffee and Red Bull is the least of our future problems methinks.

+1000000000000000000000000000000

Generation of beta males

 

[elmarko]

I don't buy it, people just complain more these days becuase they can.

Massive generalisation.

Do you really think a few hundred years ago they where not stressed. Working long hours etc.

Manual labour is less mentally stressful than tasks which require more advanced conceptual thinking.

Mental stress isn't the same as muscle fatigue - for a start when we perform phisically intensive tasks we get the same benefit we do mentally from exericse.

The same can't be said about mental labour.

Its just we have the comfort now so that we can complain, we can see the news where ever it is the world, suicide is reported etc.

The fact we see the news is part of the reason for the additional stress.

While the world in the past was historically more dangerous, unless you saw or knew somebody who was murdered in-front of you - you wouldn't have stressed over it.

Now we are much safer, but have a box in our houses showing us pictures of murdered & raped people all day - list after list of dead from hundreds of accidents globally, fire deaths, stabbings, shootings, kidnappings & mass murder on display 24/7.

This will have an impact.

 

[Freefaller]

There is far more information on being healthy around today than there was 50-60 years ago. These days you can get fresh fruit of all kinds, vitamin supplements, gyms are all over the place, there is a massive exercise culture, running and biking is bigger now than ever.

Biggest change in my opinion is like you have said the move away from manual labour work in to more automation and office jobs. If those people do not exercise then they will be worse off than their parents. Coffee and sugar and drug, legal and illegal, are also contributing factors at making people unhealthy.

My dad lost his teeth when he was in his childhood due to cheap juice mix drinks and not brushing his teeth. He also ate very low quality meals growing up he tells me. He said in comparison the choices we have available today and the quality of the food is much greater than it used to be. The idea that we could get salad in a bag imported from another country and still be fresh is relatively new.

Access to more foods is a good point, but owing to mass farming and manufacture, nutrient density (i.e. how nutritionally complete a food is) hasn't actually got any better, owing to the fact that we are growing things quicker, and picking them earlier (so that they remain fresh) means they're not able to draw or develop as much nutrients. A few exceptions are things like frozen peas which bang the drum of "picked and frozen immediately to prevent nutrient degradation". However this is not true of all foods I agree. And does the offsetting of a higher quantity of lower quality foods may account for better access to vitamins that our previous generations didn't have? I don't know.

Mass farming, and agriculture has reduced the quality of products, certainly wheat/and grains now have been so cross pollinated and tampered that it doesn't resemble what it did numerous generations ago.

This may be bad or good depending on your view point.

 

[Glaucus]

So health, slavery, starving, prostitution, and many other things that us in the west generally do not have to deal with, etc aren't mental health and all physical? Get out of here, load of rubbish.

You look at history. We have it easy. And that very much includes mental health, not just back breaking work.

Pictures of that, compared to seeing it and being involved in it daily. Yeah I'm sure seeing pictures is worse, than being there. NOT.