Is shaped still classed as uncapped?

Soldato
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27 Aug 2003
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The word "unlimited" seems to have lost it's meaning and ISPs are hiding behind a variey of vague descriptions of their services.

Is it still accepted for packages to be advertised as uncapped/unlimited when there are clearly usage restrictions in place?
 
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Think they've rewritten some of the t & c's, basically to say the "Unlimited" bit simply means you can spend unlimited time connected, but not unlimited downloading. Its a farce that they can get away with it.
 
shaped can be unlimited (i presume your talking about data caps), what shaped usually means is they limit certain traffic e.g. P2P and give higher priority to VOIP and web traffic. So the ISP is letting you download as much as you want (e.g no 40gb cap) but instead of being able to download from P2P software at 225KBps they will limit it to 100KBps during peak hours which imo is completely understandable esp. with BT now doing 8Mb
 
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T180985 said:
So the ISP is letting you download as much as you want (e.g no 40gb cap) but instead of being able to download from P2P software at 225KBps they will limit it to 100KBps during peak hours which imo is completely understandable esp. with BT now doing 8Mb

if only..... :D

like me, FunkyT is on pipex and they are throttling all p2p traffic to 20kb/s 24/7 for everyone. even people already on max have the same restrictions. suffice to say i've got my mac code and i'm off.... :p
 
Truly uncapped would suggest you could run at the line rate of your access link, which is clearly not what they mean. As we all know, by uncaped\unlimited in residential servics they mean you can download as much as you like, not you can download as quickly as you like.

The 'shaping' process, and you probbably mean policing as shaping is a customer activity on egress to avoid loss due to ISP policing on the PE is simply to support the CIR (data rate) that your service offers, 10Mb/s etc. So policing in this contect is ok - they are just misusing the term capping.

Skidd.
 
marc2003 said:
if only..... :D

like me, FunkyT is on pipex and they are throttling all p2p traffic to 20kb/s 24/7 for everyone. even people already on max have the same restrictions. suffice to say i've got my mac code and i'm off.... :p

20KB/s - they're not that bad :D
 
Orifice said:
Think they've rewritten some of the t & c's, basically to say the "Unlimited" bit simply means you can spend unlimited time connected, but not unlimited downloading. Its a farce that they can get away with it.

I agree. ISPs need to be 100% upfront as to what is being offered. Surely they're on a sticky wicket in terms of a breach in advertising standards?
 
does anyone know of an ISP which doesn't use shaping and maybe even says they're never planning to? If I was a broadband company now and provided an unshaped service that would be my first advertising line "we don't limit p2p" or something.
 
rudeboymcc said:
does anyone know of an ISP which doesn't use shaping and maybe even says they're never planning to? If I was a broadband company now and provided an unshaped service that would be my first advertising line "we don't limit p2p" or something.

Failure to manage a network will result in poor performance and/or loss to the ISP.

They just need to remove the "unlimited" word from their advertising and make restrictions clear from the outset.
 
im with pipex to, and ive been with them for 4 half years now, i cant beleave what there doing. so im gonna be moving isps as well, im gonna stay till the end of the month see how things go

Originally Posted by marc2003
suffice to say i've got my mac code and i'm off.... :p
looks like im gonna be doing the same :)

what isps do you guys have in mind? im still looking but cant seem to pick 1 yet :)
 
pipex own Nildram, and all Nildram packages are caped, Zen have a cap to.

hmm there seems to be 2 types of packages with Eclipse, evolution broadband thats not caped and home broadband that is caped
 
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hmm it seems that Eclipse are trafic shaping as well, but its not as bad as pipex are doing. this last week all my torrents have been coming down at 20k 24/7

if they trafic shaped it just at peak times (ie 5pm to 12am) i wouldnt mind that but not all the time 24/7. as long as my pings fine in games at peak hours i would be happy with that
 
Well to answer the original question, I think it's legitimate to class a service as uncapped even if shaping is being enforced as uncapped is a very specific term meaning no limit is placed on the amount you may download, which is the case even if certain types of traffic are shaped. Yes the enforcement of shaping may limit what you can download in any given time period to a lower amount than would otherwise be the case but that's a rather tenuous argument. You could argue that every service is capped in that it has a finite nominal speed which dictates how much you can download in any given period.

More contentious is the use of the word unlimited. The ISPs would no doubt claim they are using this word to mean the same thing as uncapped but if we go by the dictionary definition of the term then it does indeed mean an absence of limits, which traffic shaping certainly is not.

This kind of crap needs to be stamped out and fast. The ISPs are taking liberties, especially those who do impose more severe limitations on their service and are doing a major injustice to the few ISPs who are genuinely unlimited and impose no caps or shaping of any kind.

http://www.asa.org.uk

I suggest everyone here takes the time to register a complaint on this site and maybe a precedent can be set sometime soon.
 
At current state I'm not sure each ISP can cope with everybody downloading at the maximum theoretical speed possible 24/7 like many P2P users do - until that is not the case I have my opinons on P2P users.

I completely agree with traffic shaping, they priorities traffic correctly; my HTTP browsing comes way above that of a peer-to-peer user downloading his latest warez fix – why should he download at full speed while my legitimate web browsing is akin to 56k due to him screwing my contention at the exchange, when he is clearly breaking the law.

Also if you're downloading large amounts each month you should pay for the privilege to do so - it's not normal and you're almost certainly getting up to no good if you're bypassing large data caps set by most ISP's (OK I know some are unreasonable, but the vast majority aren't)

I predict soon that many high data users are going to have to pay a large amount extra for the ability to do so as unlimited ISP’s are very much becoming a niche market.
 
garyh said:
my contention at the exchange

It's not your exchange that your ISP's concerned with (or that the shaping applies to) - it's the BT Central (at £1.4M pa for 622Mbps) between BT's network and your ISP's that they're interested in.

Other than that, most of your points make (some) sense, although the ISP's more concerned with peak bandwidth usage than monthly total transfer - if anything, Centrals maxed out 24/7 are a good thing (in that bandwidth lying idle is more or less wasted, hence limits/shaping being directed at peak time).

Incidentally, the ASA don't care about claims made on ISP's own sites. Already tried that one ;)
 
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