Is the situation really this bad?

[FishThrower]

Yeah you get a lot of freedom in the sense that you can just move on if you don't like what you are doing, it's harder as a perm due to notice periods and just the general stigma association with changing jobs frequently if you are not a contractor. Even allowing for the fact it's less tax efficient than it used to be I still think contracting is appealing, you can basically float around re-rolling the dice until you get something you like. Part of me wonders if I made a mistake going back to perm, to get the same money you need a lot more seniority/responsibility, and if you stay in the same job long enough you get involved in more and more stuff so people come to you more and more for different things. Being able to press a reset button is a luxury you don't really have a perm (although in consulting it is a bit different as you get partial resets from changing client/projects).

Totally agree with everything you said.

I have been perm for 7-8 years now, if I ever get made redundant or loose my job, I will probably give contracting another go. Unfortunately in higher paid jobs ( not management, but technical) , it’s not uncommon for the interview process to be 3-4 layers which is really off putting for me for perm roles. Contracting roles usually pay more and it’s just a single interview, and the start date can be 2 weeks time from the interview.

There’s also much more opportunity to learn more on contracting, as it’s more project focus, while perm roles do tend to be more BAU focused.

In previous perm jobs I have been a victim of “being there too long, so more responsibilities gets passed onto you” , didn’t have a issue with that at the time as it was interesting learning new things, but unfortunately the pay didn’t reflect it , and at one point, my appraisal score suffered as some extra responsibilities had a impact on my main job, so they used that as a reason not to give a great pay rise!

Regarding tax and contracting…. a lot of companies offer WFH to contractors now, which is a big plus for the company not having to declare you in ir35, a lot of companies before COVID just declared all of their contractors inside ir35 as they couldn’t be bothered with the hassle

 

[McBain]

It’s pretty grim out there at the moment. I managed to find new work after getting made redundant but similar experience to the OP, hardly managed to get an interview.

 

[gazref]

Totally agree with everything you said.

I have been perm for 7-8 years now, if I ever get made redundant or loose my job, I will probably give contracting another go. Unfortunately in higher paid jobs ( not management, but technical) , it’s not uncommon for the interview process to be 3-4 layers which is really off putting for me for perm roles. Contracting roles usually pay more and it’s just a single interview, and the start date can be 2 weeks time from the interview.

There’s also much more opportunity to learn more on contracting, as it’s more project focus, while perm roles do tend to be more BAU focused.

In previous perm jobs I have been a victim of “being there too long, so more responsibilities gets passed onto you” , didn’t have a issue with that at the time as it was interesting learning new things, but unfortunately the pay didn’t reflect it , and at one point, my appraisal score suffered as some extra responsibilities had a impact on my main job, so they used that as a reason not to give a great pay rise!

Regarding tax and contracting…. a lot of companies offer WFH to contractors now, which is a big plus for the company not having to declare you in ir35, a lot of companies before COVID just declared all of their contractors inside ir35 as they couldn’t be bothered with the hassle

opposite. Inside ir35 designations is very prevalent because companies don't want to risk fines. I don't know many true outside contractors and a few mates who held out hoping the wind changed eventually caved and took inside roles. PAYE and no expenses sucks but companies do offer elevated day rates.

 

[HangTime]

Unfortunately in higher paid jobs ( not management, but technical) , it’s not uncommon for the interview process to be 3-4 layers which is really off putting for me for perm roles.

Multi-stage process doesn't bother me at all, if anything I view it as a positive as it gives me more chance to learn about the role, what other roles it will have around it etc. Plus as your statement illustrates, the added bonus that it might scare some people off so there is less competition. Most interview stages are conducted remotely these days as well, so it's not like you have to spend hours travelling to and from interviews very often.
The way I look at it a 3-4 stage process is perhaps 1 day total allowing for prep time, and 1 day really isn't a lot of time in the grand scheme of things. Maybe a bit longer if it involves a take-home project, again I know that puts some people off but I like it because it gives me an opportunity to demonstrate my prowess on something practical, rather than just being judged based on whether some random panelists hit it off with me or whether they happen to ask questions I have good answers for or not.

When I was a contractor I think I did 1 45min interview and was offered the job the next day, kind of bonkers really that they can appraise me in that time for something paying over £150k but I suppose they have the freedom to get rid of you if you turn out rubbish.

 

[Converge]

Finding it unusually quiet for me. I’ve been fortunate in the last few years to usually get a new contract within a week of putting myself out to my agent as available, but it’s now been a month and nothing. Not in dire straits by any stretch, but would prefer to be working.

 

[413x]

I'm not a contractor but keep looking. I work for a consultancy and it's a bit quieter than I think is expected.

I've seen far less jobs come through perm and contract too.

Its picked up a bit in last few weeks. But I'm glad my old job made me redundant in November and not January!

 

[chrismscotland]

NCR?

William Grants....

The market does seem to have picked up in recent weeks, I've had a fair few calls about BA / Data Analyst type work in Edinburgh and Glasgow and a couple of interviews lined up but it still seems relatively quiet for the time of year

 

[BongoHunter]

Things aren't entirely normal in the south east at the moment. The firm I work for is a very large one and we have a hiring freeze on for IT/Technology roles at the moment. Quite a few other large companies are doing the same.

I got to third round interview for a very senior technology role in a big bank in March and the role was axed at the last minute (along with the accompanying projects) to save cash.

Contractor market still looks ok though for DevOps/SRE's/Developers

 

[MissChief]

We've had to get senior Finance management approval within Sky for internal hires for the last 9 months. We just asked for 6 new hires, Finance approved 2, a drop in the ocean for our expected workload. By the time they're interviewed, offered, accepted, released from their current roles (who have a habit of digging their feet in and saying 4 weeks) and they're up to speed to be left alone it'll be September.

 

[Screeeech]

It's really difficult out there at the moment, I fell between two stools in a new role recently, and I've been looking hard for a new role for a while now.. (7-8 months) and only managed a couple of interviews, considering I'm FANNG experienced with a hell of a lot of experience, it feels like I'm cursed - but there's just so much competition.

I find myself applying for stuff and just getting ghosted, or default rejection letters - not even an interview... I recently did 9 interviews for a job and only just missed the mark, tbh I'm just ******** off with the whole thing at the moment..

I'm thinking of going contracting, but I imagine that's not much easier - I'm also on a 3 month notice, so I'd have to bite the bullet and quit first, which feels daunting..

Although, I hate my current role so much - I might be willing to do it.

It's gotten to the point where I'm not far off just blatantly lying on my CV, just to get an interview - because once I get to the interview process, I'm good... It's just getting through all of the recruiters and time wasters, and competing with everyone else, just to get seen...

 

[Wizzkidy]

The company I work for (mid sized 350 staff) has also got a hiring freeze on at the moment. My IT team needs at least 1 maybe 2 new engineers due to work load but they won't budge at the moment. I have 1 guy that supports the Great Yarmouth offices (over 170 people) over 3 offices close to each other. It's far to much work for one guy and when he goes on holiday they expect one of my other engineers that work 120 miles away to cover it.

 

[malachi]

I find myself applying for stuff and just getting ghosted, or default rejection letters - not even an interview... I recently did 9 interviews for a job and only just missed the mark, tbh I'm just ******** off with the whole thing at the moment..

9 interviews for one role!!!! And there is me getting annoyed at 4.

 

[Screeeech]

9 interviews for one role!!!! And there is me getting annoyed at 4.

Yeah I know, it went on for 6 weeks and did my ******** head in, then after 9 interviews they just ghosted me (this is after interviews with Cx and VP level people) of a company most people in tech have heard of....

I had to chase for them to say "sorry mate, we found someone else" and I was really upset tbh, as I interviewed well and put a lot of effort and research in...

just a bit worn out at the moment... It was a mega senior position.... but meh...

 

[CapitalOne]

Just note all, with the amount of redundancies going on at the moment that’s a lot of candidates looking for all those “on hold” roles we all have.

I’m an oldie, but stick where you are for another year and see how it plays out.

 

[Wizzkidy]

@Screeeech Before I got this role a year ago I was looking for 8 months myself, I just kept on applying for everything that was in the area I was looking for and got ignored 95% of the time. Something will come up no doubt about that I have been there myself, it sucks but it will eventually happen for you.

I must have applied for over 80 and came out with about 8 interviews over that period.

 

[CREATIVE!11]

@Screeeech Before I got this role a year ago I was looking for 8 months myself, I just kept on applying for everything that was in the area I was looking for and got ignored 95% of the time. Something will come up no doubt about that I have been there myself, it sucks but it will eventually happen for you.

I must have applied for over 80 and came out with about 8 interviews over that period.

This is me right now, except i'm looking for an entry dev role. Being slaughtered with rejections and no replies, also what makes it worse is the lack of entry roles right now in general. I've had to widen my area by quite a lot and possibly will end up having to relocate.

Not got much of a choice right now it seems....

I recently did 9 interviews for a job

Wtf....

 

[Screeeech]

Wtf....

I know….

Tbh it was mega senior, but even so it did my head in..

 

[jon86]

I know….

Tbh it was mega senior, but even so it did my head in..

Mega senior = head of Engineering type role?

 

[Screeeech]

Mega senior = head of Engineering type role?

Senior principal engineer, for a big tech firm..

 

[AndyCr15]

I realise my role as Delivery Lead (Scrum Master) might be different to you guys as engineers, but I'm awaiting an interview for, well, the job I'm currently doing. Some might have followed my story, I came in as a 'Junior' DL last year and now they're advertising 'Senior' DL roles, which almost everyone else already is. So, I won't move or do anything different, I'm already running a team that would be considered one of the bigger/more complex ones, but I was chatting with my Line Manager yesterday who said after the initial cut they are down to 44 candidates for the 7 roles. That still seems like quite a lot to me! It does make me grateful I was able to pivot with my current company rather than trying to fight my way into a new field against that much competition as I think it simply wouldn't happen.