Is the Union working?

Ricochet J

Ricochet J

Ricochet J

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Joined
29 Jun 2004
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Plaid Cymru who have the third most seats in the National Assembly for Wales want an independent Wales. They have a larger majority of seats than the Lib Dems.
The SNP who are the majority in Scotland want an independent state.
Sinn Féin want a united Ireland.

Is the Union working?
 
Yes.

Just because the SNP are in power does not mean that the majority want independence, or it will be granted any time soon.

/thread (before this gets into our weekly anti Scotland thread!)
 
Ricochet J said:
It's not just about Scotland.
Click to expand...

I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, and I admit my knowledge of Plaid isn't great, but I don't think that Plaid want an independent Wales. I believe they want to further Wales' rights and lawmaking ability and set up a Parliament akin to Holyrood but I thought the idea of an independent Wales has gone, or at the very least is on the backest of back burners.

The only people talking about leaving the Union are the SNP (and even they are hardly being very forthright in their rhetoric).
 
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Ahleckz said:
Yes.

Just because the SNP are in power does not mean that the majority want independence, or it will be granted any time soon.

/thread (before this gets into our weekly anti Scotland thread!)
Click to expand...

Indeed, the SNP are in power for their other policies and lack of a better alternative. The majority of us don't want independence, hence why the referendum is constantly put back, Alex Salmond knows it will fail.

EDIT: I'm also filled with a sense of dread because I know Biohazard can probably smell this thread and is on his way here right now...
 
Ricochet J said:
Plaid Cymru who have the third most seats in the National Assembly for Wales want an independent Wales. They have a larger majority of seats than the Lib Dems.
The SNP who are the majority in Scotland want an independent state.
Sinn Féin want a united Ireland.

Is the Union working?
Click to expand...

Plaid Cymru know in reality they can't seed from the union, not being a recognised nation in it is the real kicker... So the party knows in reality its aims are to protect the ideals of being Welsh within Britain,

Sinn Fein have had 100 years as being some form of a poetical force to have a united and independent Ireland. In 100 years they have achieved nether, killed a lot of innocent people and made complete idiots of them selves. Note ALL Irish independence in the Republic has a. been created by sensible people, not sinn fein idiots and b. is only symbolic independence anyway, the Irish economy is so heavily dependent on the UK they should really have been invited into the pound last time the Euro dropped.

Scotland know they can't realistically leave the Union, the SNP don't have the support and Scotland doesn't have the identity or economy to become a sovereign state....

So yeah Union, despite being the tyranny of evil with a terrible anthem and some views of uber backwards lack of change, works much better than "sovereign states" like France and other nonsense liberal states
 
Strife212 said:
wat
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Urm the idea of the union is having 4 nations to form one sovereign entity in the international stage and the comparison I tend to use is the Uk against France as France is technically a unitary nation-state with "one" identity. The problem is France has just a fractured society than the UK despite the UK having several nations that in some respects want independence from each other.

Anyway the idea of sovereignty is still comical and silly as so few states in the world have any use for it as sovereignty doesn't feed people or make an economy, just makes people fight a bit (hence having a bit of sarcasm for the phrase sovereign state)
 
And yet 12 months a go in a general election these party’s made no head way with results, the snp getting 21% of Scottish votes, LD and cons got 20% and 19%.

Nothing has change a lot in the 12 months it just people feel these national partys are better for local matters (opinion not fact) as they feel that they listen to the concerns of the people.

Also the SNP results in Scotland was just a lot of things going right for them at the same time, the total collapse of the LD and the fact Scottish labour couldn’t run a bath all helped.
 
pingwing said:
Scotland know they can't realistically leave the Union, the SNP don't have the support and Scotland doesn't have the identity or economy to become a sovereign state....
Click to expand...

http://www.cppr.ac.uk/media/media_202570_en.pdf

I am English not Scottish but I will save any Scott the trouble of a retort...

this discussion has been put to bed in the above report:

Executive Summary

This report concentrates on projecting forward Scotland’s fiscal balance in line with the
methodology followed in the GERS publication. It uses GERS 2011 data up to 2009-10 and
then Budget 2011 projections for the UK and constant shares of UK expenditure and
revenues to estimate Scotland’s future balance.

The calculations show that post 2009-10:
- including North Sea tax revenues, Scotland’s position reflects the shifting fortunes
of the oil price; projected future prices suggests that a fully fiscally autonomous
Scotland would have a lower fiscal deficit than the UK, by up to 3% of GDP,
although this advantage all but disappears by 2015-16;

- excluding North Sea tax revenues, Scotland has a higher fiscal deficit than the UK,
amounting to a fairly constant 6-7% of GDP;
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i.e Scotland could support itself fiscally - there is very little in it from a financial perspective.

As a Unionist I would argue that any debate with any country in the union should be about our values and sense of direction NOT about money.

Frankly it's tacky.
 
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It better had be working, I'd rather be closer to Liverpool than swallowed up by Brussels!

As for Plaid, their gunning for an independent Wales is always laced within everything they do but very little buy into that.
 
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pingwing said:
Plaid Cymru know in reality they can't seed from the union, not being a recognised nation in it is the real kicker... So the party knows in reality its aims are to protect the ideals of being Welsh within Britain,

Sinn Fein have had 100 years as being some form of a poetical force to have a united and independent Ireland. In 100 years they have achieved nether, killed a lot of innocent people and made complete idiots of them selves. Note ALL Irish independence in the Republic has a. been created by sensible people, not sinn fein idiots and b. is only symbolic independence anyway, the Irish economy is so heavily dependent on the UK they should really have been invited into the pound last time the Euro dropped.

Scotland know they can't realistically leave the Union, the SNP don't have the support and Scotland doesn't have the identity or economy to become a sovereign state....

So yeah Union, despite being the tyranny of evil with a terrible anthem and some views of uber backwards lack of change, works much better than "sovereign states" like France and other nonsense liberal states
Click to expand...

There is nothing wrong with our national anthem! It suits our country (as an old, established nation) just like the Italian anthem does them (young upstart nation with a cheeky side).:p

Superficial said:
http://www.cppr.ac.uk/media/media_202570_en.pdf

I am English not Scottish but I will save any Scott the trouble of a retort...

this discussion has been put to bed in the above report:



i.e Scotland could support itself fiscally - there is very little in it from a financial perspective.

As a Unionist I would argue that any debate with any country in the union should be about our values and sense of direction NOT about money.

Frankly it's tacky.
Click to expand...

Out of interest when it says north sea taxes does that mean all north sea revenues or just the revenue from the 'Scottish' part? I'm sure those in the Norfolk and north east England area would be a bit miffed as to why their O&G taxes are classed as scottish...
 
The union is mostly working, which is about as much as can be expected in the real world.

I think that England and Wales should be given more power and autonomy, to put them on a par with Scotland in that respect. NI is a more complicated issue.

But how far do you go? The difference between Cornwall and the rest of England isn't all that much less than the difference between Wales and England. England was only unified about 1100 years ago and there are still remnants of the previous divisions. North/South in particular. The land on both sides of the border between England and Scotland spent quite some time as an area fairly distinct from both countries - should it be independent from both?
 
Amp34 said:
Out of interest when it says north sea taxes does that mean all north sea revenues or just the revenue from the 'Scottish' part? I'm sure those in the Norfolk and north east England area would be a bit miffed as to why their O&G taxes are classed as scottish...
Click to expand...

It includes only Scotlands Geographic share.
 
Superficial said:
http://www.cppr.ac.uk/media/media_202570_en.pdf

I am English not Scottish but I will save any Scott the trouble of a retort...

this discussion has been put to bed in the above report:



i.e Scotland could support itself fiscally - there is very little in it from a financial perspective.

As a Unionist I would argue that any debate with any country in the union should be about our values and sense of direction NOT about money.

Frankly it's tacky.
Click to expand...

The oil belongs to the UK. If Scotland want to leave the UK, then fine, but they ain't getting the oil! :D
 
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