Is there any reason I shouldnt go and have a look?

Gibbo said:
HI there

If its a 911 you want, then nothing else will do.
Yes a Cayman or newer Boxster might be better, but always in the back of your mind it will grind you that your not in a 911 and it would make ownership of Cayman/Boxster not as enjoyable.

So yes a 987 Boxster or Cayman although superior to a 996 911 have one major downfall, they are not a 911.

Just make sure you buy from a reputable source and even if its not eligable for warranty still get a 111-point inspection done by the seller before parting with your cash and also ask for the DME printout report. This is absolutely crucial when buying any Porsche.

Otherwise you could end up buying a 911 which otherwise looks spotless to only be hit with massive bills for front radiators, RMS seals, coil packs, electrical gremlins and whole host of other niggles and before you know it you could have a bill for 2k on your hands, so at about £150 for the inspection by Porsche it is well worth it as in the long run it could save you a huge amount of cash or prevent you from buying a possible lemon.

If its a 911 you want, then get one purchased, but please for the love of god don't buy one without getting the inspection done and push to the seller to either reduce the price by whats required doing or for them to have Porsche do the work before you part with your monies.

P.S. Don't forget that advance driving course. ;)
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All good advise thanks Gibbo. I was just thinking that a 15k 911 sounds like it could be more hastle than a 10k boxster which gave me no problem at all.

BTW what exactly does a DME printout report show me?
 
Gibbo said:
Good you like to work on your own cars, but seriously get it inspected, could save you a lot of money for the sake of £150.

If your talking Z4M Coupe then awsome car, great drivers car and a lot of fun. The Z4M convertible is still very good, but the Coupe did have several different components to make it a more focused car, in the looks department its no 911 however.
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Thats the worst thing... last night I sat on auto trader and looked at every car between 14 and 20k which matched engine larger than 2.5l, convertible and sporty.

Basically the choices I have are:

Audi TT
BMW Z4M Cab
Boxster
911
M3

As I was looking I noticed myself just browsing page after page and only really looking at 3 cars all of which were 911's. I have no doubt that the TT in some guises would probably be a decent car, the same goes for the BMW's but they just don't seem to be talking to me. I am just wondering if that would change if I drove a few.
 
VinceB1 said:
All good advise thanks Gibbo. I was just thinking that a 15k 911 sounds like it could be more hastle than a 10k boxster which gave me no problem at all.

BTW what exactly does a DME printout report show me?
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996 cars have two DME ranges, range1 is fine, anything in range2 then walk away.

Basically anything in range2 means the engine has been buzzed badly, no doubt from an incorrect downshift, this could mean the engines timing chain has weakened and could let go at anytime or engine damage has been caused, hence why a DME report is critical.

997/987 cars have 6 ranges, anything in Ranges 1-3 is considered OK, Range 4 Porsche will insist on an engine compression test before placing warranty on a car and Ranges 5/6 invalidate warranty and Porsche in most cases will refuse to put a warranty on such car though the odd GT3 has got away with it if the ignition say in Range 5 was over 100 operating hours ago.

Here is the Over-Rev Ranges for Gen1 997/987 cars:-

These are the rpm ranges for a gen-1 997

Range 1: 7300-7500rpm
Range 2: 7500-7700
Range 3: 7700-7900
Range 4: 7900-8400
Range 5: 8400-9500
Range 6: 9500-11000

Range 1 'overrevs' can be caused just by hitting the limiter on the way up, so the number can be very large with no harm whatsoever. I believe an occasional Range 2 can happen the same way so OPC's tend not to care at all about R1 and R2. Same with R3 but I'm assuming you (or a previous owner) will need to have mistimed a change to push the rpms that high. R4 seems to divide opinion amongst OPCs from what I've read - some don't seem to bother, others want oil analysis.

R5 ignitions have the potential to do serious damage so full analysis will always be required and, again from what I've read, warranty may be denied.

R6 will likely have detonated your engine anyway, so it's a moot point!



This is how an over-rev report looks like on a 987/997 car:-

R1 - 3926 / 1041 hrs
R2 - 548 / 926 hrs
R3 - 62 / 603 hrs
R4 - 10 / 590 hrs (equivalent to just 0.025 second)
R5 - 1 / 590 hrs
R6 - 0 / 0

Engine operating hours 1108. Average speed 19.5mph.



Like I say older 996 cars just have two ranges, range one is fine, anything in range two then WALK AWAY! Any OPC or Specialist can do a DME scan. I can do it as well with laptop and Durametric cable but you live a bit too far away.
 
VinceB1 said:
Thats the worst thing... last night I sat on auto trader and looked at every car between 14 and 20k which matched engine larger than 2.5l, convertible and sporty.

Basically the choices I have are:

Audi TT
BMW Z4M Cab
Boxster
911
M3

As I was looking I noticed myself just browsing page after page and only really looking at 3 cars all of which were 911's. I have no doubt that the TT in some guises would probably be a decent car, the same goes for the BMW's but they just don't seem to be talking to me. I am just wondering if that would change if I drove a few.
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Not meaning to offend anyone here, but BMW M3 and Audi TT are superb cars, but they are not special, they are just great cars but there image is well just another TT or BMW. :)

911 has great exclusivity and a prestige image, its a Porka afterall.
Still driving wise an M3 is hard to compete with, one of the best drivers car still to this date the E46 is.
 
Gibbo said:
996 cars have two DME ranges, range1 is fine, anything in range2 then walk away.

Basically anything in range2 means the engine has been buzzed badly, no doubt from an incorrect downshift, this could mean the engines timing chain has weakened and could let go at anytime or engine damage has been caused, hence why a DME report is critical.

997/987 cars have 6 ranges, anything in Ranges 1-3 is considered OK, Range 4 Porsche will insist on an engine compression test before placing warranty on a car and Ranges 5/6 invalidate warranty and Porsche in most cases will refuse to put a warranty on such car though the odd GT3 has got away with it if the ignition say in Range 5 was over 100 operating hours ago.

Here is the Over-Rev Ranges for Gen1 997/987 cars:-

These are the rpm ranges for a gen-1 997

Range 1: 7300-7500rpm
Range 2: 7500-7700
Range 3: 7700-7900
Range 4: 7900-8400
Range 5: 8400-9500
Range 6: 9500-11000

Range 1 'overrevs' can be caused just by hitting the limiter on the way up, so the number can be very large with no harm whatsoever. I believe an occasional Range 2 can happen the same way so OPC's tend not to care at all about R1 and R2. Same with R3 but I'm assuming you (or a previous owner) will need to have mistimed a change to push the rpms that high. R4 seems to divide opinion amongst OPCs from what I've read - some don't seem to bother, others want oil analysis.

R5 ignitions have the potential to do serious damage so full analysis will always be required and, again from what I've read, warranty may be denied.

R6 will likely have detonated your engine anyway, so it's a moot point!



This is how an over-rev report looks like on a 987/997 car:-

R1 - 3926 / 1041 hrs
R2 - 548 / 926 hrs
R3 - 62 / 603 hrs
R4 - 10 / 590 hrs (equivalent to just 0.025 second)
R5 - 1 / 590 hrs
R6 - 0 / 0

Engine operating hours 1108. Average speed 19.5mph.



Like I say older 996 cars just have two ranges, range one is fine, anything in range two then WALK AWAY! Any OPC or Specialist can do a DME scan. I can do it as well with laptop and Durametric cable but you live a bit too far away.
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Just the info I needed. Thanks mate. I have lined up some calls for tomorrow where I am planning on arranging to go and see 3 cars, the one in the link, one slightly up the budget and one that is slightly over budget but is a c4s facelift model.

Hopefully I will see a few between xmas and new years so should get a feel for them. I will either buy then or wait for Jan/Feb as I am in no rush.
 
VinceB1 said:
Just the info I needed. Thanks mate. I have lined up some calls for tomorrow where I am planning on arranging to go and see 3 cars, the one in the link, one slightly up the budget and one that is slightly over budget but is a c4s facelift model.

Hopefully I will see a few between xmas and new years so should get a feel for them. I will either buy then or wait for Jan/Feb as I am in no rush.
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The 111 inspection includes a DME scan and you can request the printout are part of the included fee. :)

Alternatively any specialist with a durametric cable and the software can DME scan the ECU for you, it takes literally 2 minutes.

Plug cable into OBD Port, connect to laptop, turn ignition on, load software, scan ECU, print screen and save the report/image. :)
 
Gibbo said:
The 111 inspection includes a DME scan and you can request the printout are part of the included fee. :)

Alternatively any specialist with a durametric cable and the software can DME scan the ECU for you, it takes literally 2 minutes.

Plug cable into OBD Port, connect to laptop, turn ignition on, load software, scan ECU, print screen and save the report/image. :)
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Good stuff is there any benefit in getting myself a cable and the software? I mean I can't get a specialist to scan every single car I want to go and see.

What sort of costs are we looking at for the kit? Also I guess a scan first would help me to reduce the amount of £150 111 point checks if I start having issues finding a car.
 
VinceB1 said:
Good stuff is there any benefit in getting myself a cable and the software? I mean I can't get a specialist to scan every single car I want to go and see.

What sort of costs are we looking at for the kit? Also I guess a scan first would help me to reduce the amount of £150 111 point checks if I start having issues finding a car.
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You need to buy this:-
http://secure.ultracart.com/cgi-bin/UCEditor?MERCHANTID=DURAM&ADD=DURAMETRIC (This allows upto three cars, so only DME scan cars you actually want to buy after viewing/driving). A professional kit with unlimited cars is about $750.

More info on Durametric here:-
http://www.durametric.com/default.aspx
Different kits here:-
http://www.durametric.com/buyus.aspx

Then download the free software, Durametric 5.0 and version 6.0, install both onto your laptop and your sorted. :)

Before going to visit any car make sure the dealer/seller is happy and understands what you'd be doing and that the device can only read and can't be used to edit/write to the ECU, but again only DME scan a car your seriously considering buying.
 
hmmm 3 car limit is a bit of a put off at £200. I think it might be worth shopping around, finding a car that I think is right and then taking it from there. At the end of the day what is a £150 inspection when your spending 15-20k on a car?
 
VinceB1 said:
hmmm 3 car limit is a bit of a put off at £200. I think it might be worth shopping around, finding a car that I think is right and then taking it from there. At the end of the day what is a £150 inspection when your spending 15-20k on a car?
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Correct.

That £150 inspecting results in Porsche checking over the entire car, they will check everything and give you a DME printout too. They will either tell you the car needs £6000 spending on it or they will say good car, no work required or just a set of pads for the front.

Hence why its important, I know of people who have had inspections done on cars and the required work has totalled nearly £8000 with an OPC, though a specialist can reduce such bills by 2-3k.

However the last thing you want when spending 15-20k on a car is an additional bill on top for another 5k to keep it reliable.

Hence don't buy a Porsche without some kind of inspection for the sake of £150 is not worth the risk!
 
ash_scotland88 said:
The inside isn't visually pleasing and seems rather outdated.
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The inside bar the steering wheel colour is the same as my boxster was, granted they dont look great in pics but like I said to me they are quite retro and I find them quite a nice place to be :)
 
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As I mentioned in the original thread, my step dad said you can have his lovely 996 C4S for 20k :p :)

2004 model, 69,300 on the clock, Seal Grey with Navy interior :)
 
 
 
Been running insurance quotes today £1100 for the c4 non S and £1400 for the S.... not bad considering I think.
 
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