Is there any way I can reduce my brake fade?

lordrobs · 18 Apr 2006 at 20:50

Ok as some of you know my car is hardly a rocket ship (1.4 306) and I'm not exactly Colin McRae's love child but despite my general lack of speed I seem to be suffering a lot of brake fade.

Today was a classic example, come up to a roundabout quickish as there was very little traffic around, moderate braking, roundabout was clear so I don't come to a complete stop. Accelerate to the next roundabout again moderate braking and the brakes feel a touch spongy. Come to th entrance to my workplace, go for the brakes and they are pretty spongy but still stop me ok ish (although I wasn't really pushing them too much at this point) pull slowly into a parking space and by this point the brakes felt like I was pushing my foot on a wet sponge, got out the car and they stank

also looked like there was a fair bit of heat haze coming off them.

I was exactly blasting the car so basically my brakes are good for 2 and a bit moderate slows from 50/60 to 15 to 20 ish :confused:

Now I know the brakes are going to be poo as its a slow car designed to go down the shops in but is there anything I can do which doesn't involve a full on brake upgrade? The pads are nearly new but bedded in (they've done 1000 miles + so I assume they are) the discs aren't exactly on the limit either.

Can anything be done? Would vented discs help and are they a straight swap? Any advice would be great thanks.

fonzee · 18 Apr 2006 at 20:55

vented breaks need different pads iirc...

but if u get the pads aswell both should be a straight swap.

Maybe bleeding/changing the brake fluid may help...

merlin · 18 Apr 2006 at 20:55

I've come across some pants brakes in my time but nothing that poor.

Are you sure you dont have air in the system maybe?

Failing that - change the pads.

Sputnik II · 18 Apr 2006 at 20:59

How long is it since you last changed the brake fluid? Are the rear brakes working OK or are the fronts doing all the work and overheating because of it?
Maybe your just using the brakes too much ?

lordrobs · 18 Apr 2006 at 21:02

I agree merlin they are pretty poor, fine for everyday driving but then as soon as you try to push the car

Having said that I have no idea how well the car would have stopped. There was still plenty of travel left but the spongy feel didn't exactly fill me with confidence

The smell and heat made me think it was more a case of them cooking rather than any sort of air lock but I'm no expert on brakes at all.

Dolph · 18 Apr 2006 at 21:02

Change the brake fluid first of all, if the brake fluid has been in a while, it will have absorbed water, which will in turn lower the boiling point of the fluid and cause symptoms similar to those you have described above.

Link for more info

lordrobs · 18 Apr 2006 at 21:06

Sputnik II said:
How long is it since you last changed the brake fluid? Are the rear brakes working OK or are the fronts doing all the work and overheating because of it?
Maybe your just using the brakes too much ?

I should be ashamed to admit this but for the answer to your first question I'd have to ask my mechanic

I think it was done on the last full service which was 17k ago. Rear brakes are just drums, tbh I have no idea if they are working properly or not, the car feels pretty steady under braking so I asume they are doing the job ok but I doubt they contribute a great deal.

Even when I am pushing on I tend to slow down then block shift so I could go down the shift and allow the engine to take some of the load off.

TripleT · 18 Apr 2006 at 21:07

Upgrade to GTi6 brakes, 283mm of vented goodness

Although that does sound rather dodgy, I agree with the rest, get the fluid bled/changed.

Stonedofmoo · 18 Apr 2006 at 21:14

You would need 15" wheels, do you have 15" wheels to take GTI-6 brakes?

I've noticed the same thing on my housemates XTDT, the brakes really arent good and need constant adjustment. The lines were changed at MOT time which make the pedal good, but a few months later it's gone spongy again

I think the only thing to do is to change the discs and pads on the front for fresh ones

lordrobs · 18 Apr 2006 at 21:14

TripleT said:
Upgrade to GTi6 brakes, 283mm of vented goodness

Although that does sound rather dodgy, I agree with the rest, get the fluid bled/changed.

True but the GTi-6 has a few more ponies under the bonnet to justify that stopping power!

Cheers for the link Dolph. Brakes bled + fresh fluid seems the most logical first step.

Sputnik II · 18 Apr 2006 at 21:23

Just another thought, How old/worn are the disks? modern brake pads are much harder and wear the disks quickly. If the disks have worn they might be too thin or may have worn unevenly. You can check the thickness of them with a vernier or micrometer. If they are near or below the minimum thickness get them changed asap. Thin disks get very hot,very quickly.

lordrobs · 18 Apr 2006 at 21:35

Sputnik II said:
Just another thought, How old/worn are the disks? modern brake pads are much harder and wear the disks quickly. If the disks have worn they might be too thin or may have worn unevenly. You can check the thickness of them with a vernier or micrometer. If they are near or below the minimum thickness get them changed asap. Thin disks get very hot,very quickly.

I've got a digital vernier somewhere in the shed, I'll see how much meat they've got left on them. If they need doing then I'll get the whole lot done at my next service.

kaiowas · 18 Apr 2006 at 21:38

Are you sure the calipers aren't binding and causing the extra heat build up? Try going for a decent length run but use the brakes as little and as gently as you can get away with and see if they still overheat.

lordrobs · 18 Apr 2006 at 21:42

kaiowas said:
Are you sure the calipers aren't binding and causing the extra heat build up? Try going for a decent length run but use the brakes as little and as gently as you can get away with and see if they still overheat.

I do get more than my fair share of brake dust over my alloys so this might be the case. After "normal" driving they don't seem to be especially hot though.

Charlie Bravo · 19 Apr 2006 at 00:29

My 306 (1.9TD) has awful brakes. After heavy braking my steering judders and I can smell burning. After one journey I even saw the smoke coming from the front wheel arches.

I'm prob gonna change the pads/discs and get the tracking done as well.

-Mike- · 19 Apr 2006 at 00:36

I was going to post something very similar to this myself earlier!! I have a 306 dturbo and I have had my fluid changed but my brakes are still AWFUL. The other day they felt like no matter how much harder I pushed the pedal the decrese in speed wasnt going to increase.

Tappits · 19 Apr 2006 at 01:08

TripleT said:
Upgrade to GTi6 brakes

yes just get a better set-up. will cost less in the long run.

Skiddley · 19 Apr 2006 at 09:55

Sounds like boiling brake fluid to me (sponginess).

Nathan · 19 Apr 2006 at 10:13

My brakes are spot on, in my 306 xrdt

Infact I did a hard stop the other day from 110 - 0 and they were fine.

Dolph · 19 Apr 2006 at 10:13

Tappits said:
yes just get a better set-up. will cost less in the long run.

Fitting an entirely new set of calipers, pads, disks and so on will cost less than changing the brake fluid?

If you say so....

Of course, if the fluid is knackered, uprating the brakes will make no difference whatsoever to the problem....