Is this illegal?

Don't know of any employer that is of reasonable size that would be happy with this.

As mentioned a few times this is part of ethics training in most large companies (bank's, household names etc).

Wouldn't cross my mind. Basically smells like fraud and dishonesty.

Now those big companies are not known for that either...but hey..
 
lnoton said:
Don't know of any employer that is of reasonable size that would be happy with this.

As mentioned a few times this is part of ethics training in most large companies (bank's, household names etc).

Wouldn't cross my mind. Basically smells like fraud and dishonesty.

Now those big companies are not known for that either...but hey..
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Big companies only like it when they're defrauding others, not being defrauded themselves.
 
This hypothetical head of procurement, as a senior employee, would probably be under a fiduciary duty to his employer (i.e. to act in good faith and in his employer's best interests), so he would be personally liable for wasting the employer's money. Fraud by abuse of position would be a dead cert. There would also almost certainly be a fraud by false representation if/when he declared to anyone inside the company or in paperwork that this was the best price available.

So, yes, this scheme would incur civil and criminal liability.

Nasher said:
Definitely not legal in the public sector. You would get seriously done for doing it there :p
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Yup, it could be misconduct in public office as well.
 
Your employer has a reasonable expectation that you will not knowingly perform your job badly for your personal financial gain. Fireable. Suable if the amounts were large enough for your company to want to.

If the reason the products are cheaper is because you personally know the vendor then the correct way to do this is to say to your boss "I can get us a deal on this" and then negotiate a larger bonus for the year (or similar).
 
This would likely fall under The Bribery Act 2010 if you are in control of procurement at the buying company and you didn’t declare your conflict of interest.
 
As a procurement specialist myself I can say this certainly wouldn't fly and is likely to fall foul of terms around conflict of interest and potentially legislation related to collusion and bribery.

In the public sector in particular you'd find yourself strung up.

Im.al9s willing to bet there's evidence around of people doing this, I don't know of any personally but it just seems like the kind of crap some joker would pull.
 
Now leaving to setup your own business selling these items to your previous place of work at a reduced price would, of course be completely legal. Although your current employer may be very interested how you can source these items at a price lower than they could, considering you were their procurement head.

Speak to your boss and ask if you can get this stuff cheaper what chance of a cut of the savings, see what he says. They may say yes, they may say 'that's your ****ing job you ****, GTFO and do it!'
 
I think it could just be plain old theft....

The components of the offence being the dishonest appropriation of property belonging to another with the intent to permeantly deprive the said other person of said property.....

The key test here is generally the 'dishonesty' bit.. . Would an average person consider it 'dishonest' to have such an arrangement where you pocketed a saving that the company you work for would expect you to pass on to them as part of your role as a procurement staff member? If the company are unaware of your 'arrangement' I suspect the answer would absolutely be yes.....

Moving on....

'appropriation' in the legal sense just means 'treating as your own' and I this case this would be the difference from what the company pays to what you pay..... Your would be keeping that and treating it as your own ....

The property (money) belongs to another (your company)

And you intend to permeantly deprive them of the difference by pocketing it!
 
Let's be honest, it wasn't much of an "idea" in the first place.

You could potentially set up a business, in your spare time, that does business with your employer. You're just going to have to be up front/honest about it with them, get their approval.

If your business is "well I'm going to order the things you need but whack a % on top for no reason" then you'll probably be told to **** off. If on the other hand you're a part time photographer, website designer etc.. and employed in a different role to that then offering your services to them could perhaps work.

Where it can get complicated is where perhaps you say create something in your spare time that overlaps with their business area - I used to a have a clause that said I had to offer to sell it to them first with the use of arbitration if a price couldn't be agreed.
 
It's not hard to remember the odd member posting silly questions that stand out. I'm sure I am not the only one who remembers that classic.
 
Moses said:
Not sure why you don't just do your job properly and then use the savings as evidence to progress/why before just doing that you consider whether or not you can get away with conning your company.
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Tbh it was purely hypothetical, this is what I would do anyway but was just wondering if it was legal or not. Some folks (not you, but teaboy over there to example) seem to have interpreted my post as "I want to do this, how can I do it?". Bit odd really, apparently curiosity means intent :confused:
 
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