Is this job description legal?

Murf · 5 Apr 2006 at 10:32

Doesn't having to be pro-choice discriminate against Catholics?

Dolph · 5 Apr 2006 at 10:37

Murf said:
Doesn't having to be pro-choice discriminate against Catholics?

Nope, because there are pro-choice catholics (albeit not very good catholics).

Pro-life is not a religious position, it may come from religion, but it's not exclusively religious based, and doesn't follow that all members of a religion are pro-life, or that all people who are pro-life are religious.

DaveyD · 5 Apr 2006 at 10:38

Murf said:
Doesn't having to be pro-choice discriminate against Catholics?

But, you could be catholic and still believe in abortion, and the other way round. But that's where it can probably get complicated, as somebody could say it's indirectly a race discrimination case. I don't think it is though.

iSam · 5 Apr 2006 at 11:30

Nothing wrong with discriminating against smokers IMO, stop killing yourself and you can have a job.

But the whole abortion thing is completely irrelevant unless abortion statistics are used by the company. :confused:

yak.h'cir · 5 Apr 2006 at 13:10

Sounds right to me but I have also seen plenty of jobs that discriminate by sex. I work in childcare and pretty much every nursery position I apply for states female only or female preferred.

MoNkeE · 5 Apr 2006 at 14:09

FunkyT, what's the company do?

-RaZ

Johnny Girth · 5 Apr 2006 at 14:18

I work in childcare and pretty much every nursery position I apply for states female only

Didn't realise they could do that. Seems like it would breach domestic and EU law.

Dolly · 5 Apr 2006 at 14:51

yak.h'cir said:
Sounds right to me but I have also seen plenty of jobs that discriminate by sex. I work in childcare and pretty much every nursery position I apply for states female only or female preferred.

Well, if you apply for the job and they turn you down because you're a man (meaning that you receive less favourable treatment on the grounds of your sex) then that will be unlawful direct discrimination (unless being a woman is a genuine occupational qualification - which I can't see how it will be for a nursery position).

Murf · 5 Apr 2006 at 15:32

Dolph said:
Nope, because there are pro-choice catholics (albeit not very good catholics).

Pro-life is not a religious position, it may come from religion, but it's not exclusively religious based, and doesn't follow that all members of a religion are pro-life, or that all people who are pro-life are religious.

Pro choice Catholics? I presume the Pope isn't too happy. Never understood people picking and choosing parts of a religion to suit them, but that's by the by.

I think it's a very unusual thing to mention in a job description but as I would like the right to specify any criteria for jobs in any company I man start, I appreciate the right of others to do it too.

The main issue I have with things like that being mentioned in job descriptions though is it allows a company to dictate what you do or believe in your private time, even though you're legally allowed to hold those beliefs or perform those activities. What's to say companies won't start to take this further?

a1ex2001 · 5 Apr 2006 at 15:39

I think quite a few religions would have good grounds to class that as racial discrimination, would make an interesting court case if anyone is bored. Cerntainly advertising for women or men only with out a very good reason puts you on dodgy ground. A few people tried to setup companies with women only taxi drivers and found advertising for staff a challenge!

Dolph · 5 Apr 2006 at 16:56

Murf said:
Pro choice Catholics? I presume the Pope isn't too happy. Never understood people picking and choosing parts of a religion to suit them, but that's by the by.

You can be pro-choice and a catholic. The only time it would conflict would be if YOU were to have an abortion. Pro-choice simply says you respect the right to choose.

I know quite a few people who would never personally have an abortion (for various reasons, not just religious) but fully support the rights of others to seek it if they want.

Of course, this is assuming you go by the spirit of the religion which is that everyone will be judged at the appropriate time, rather than passing judgement yourself.

Murf said:
The main issue I have with things like that being mentioned in job descriptions though is it allows a company to dictate what you do or believe in your private time, even though you're legally allowed to hold those beliefs or perform those activities. What's to say companies won't start to take this further?

But it doesn't though. All it says is that if you hold a certain view the company will not enter into a contract of employment with you.

Remember, a Job is simply a contract between employer and employee.

My contract has certain things listed that I can't do while I'm on the company payroll, I was aware of them when I took the job out, I agreed to them. If I hadn't, I wouldn't have taken the job.

Murf · 5 Apr 2006 at 17:00

Dolph said:
But it doesn't though. All it says is that if you hold a certain view the company will not enter into a contract of employment with you.

Remember, a Job is simply a contract between employer and employee.

My contract has certain things listed that I can't do while I'm on the company payroll, I was aware of them when I took the job out, I agreed to them. If I hadn't, I wouldn't have taken the job.

In single instances yes, but what if every company made demands on what you do in your personal time? Then what choice would we have?

As it stands I'm not bothered, but it could be seen as the thin end of a wedge.

Dolph · 5 Apr 2006 at 17:04

Murf said:
In single instances yes, but what if every company made demands on what you do in your personal time? Then what choice would we have?

Most companies won't, or won't make the same demands. Putting restrictions on employee activities restricts available workforce, potentially cuts you off from good talent and can cause negative public image as well.

As it stands I'm not bothered, but it could be seen as the thin end of a wedge.

Could be, but I'm personally a strong advocate of personal responsibility, something that is strongly lacking in the modern world. Given that the government has given up on this idea, it's natural for companies to start moving into the role to ensure they get people suitable for their needs.

Ev0 · 5 Apr 2006 at 18:04

Murf said:
In single instances yes, but what if every company made demands on what you do in your personal time? Then what choice would we have?

What Doplh said, there's a contract between you and the employer, if you don't like it you don't sign it and walk away/get it changed. If the employer does put in restrictions like that they run the risk of not actually getting anyone/many people interested.